HDTV and DVI: A Very Important Article (1 Viewer)

[Matt Stryker]

And in the sense that anything is pirateable (given time and monetary want), the studios are throwing money away. Why? Because current analog HDTV users will have TWO CHOICES to get HD content: break the law and pirate it, or go without. I'm not advocating anything illegal here, but I think you're going to force a lot of people to compromise their morals simply because there is no legal alternative. And if their money goes to a pirated solution, thats revenue from a set-top box that a manufacturer won't get, and revenue from content/subscription that a studio won't get.

I don't even think this issue is time sensitive. 6 years from now, my LT150 will still be a viable display device (look at the ages of some of the CRT projectors people have displaying HDTV right now!). If they had implemented this feature from the beginning of HD, I'm sure this thread would have been two posts long. They want a mulligan, and I'm not giving them one.

 

[Byron Miller]

The quality of the home video/TV release has no impact on the money the movie has already earned in theaters.

You've never heard anyone say "I'll wait until it comes out on video?" I think that number will go up as higher quality video becomes more affordable.

 

[David_Rivshin]

Byron,

If everyone has the ability to view high qualitiy movies in their homes, the theaters are going to lose out on a lot of $7 tickets.

I disagree with this. First they said that TV would kill radio. Then they complained that VCR's would kill movie theaters. Ontop of that DVD's would result in rampant pirating so that noone would actually pay for movies anymore. Let's of course not forget that if people are allowed to own MP3 players that noone will ever buy a CD again, either. To say that a new technology should not be introduced, or cripled for that matter, so that current technology would not be made obsolete is the most assinine argument I have ever heard otherwise intelligent people make. I'm not aiming that comment at you, Byron, of course, but to the talking heads of organizations such as the MPAA and RIAA.
Did the invention of the TV take away from the popularity of the radio? no doubt. Do people go to the theater less often since the invention of VCR's and video rental stores? I'm pretty sure. Does that in any way hurt the studios? Not a chance. The same companies that own radio stations also own TV stations. And the ones making money off the theatrical release are the same ones who make money off selling/renting tapes/DVDs. If they would have made $100million with a theater release of a movie sans VCRs, they probably made at least half that in the theater, and twice that by selling and renting copies. The numbers are just my WAG of course, but I have no doubt in my mind that studios make considerably more money off selling/renting direct to consumers than they ever could have even if the VCR was never invented.
So to the argument at hand, will HD-DVD or HD-TV technology make consumers go the the theater less often? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Most people simply can't afford a screen that big, or a sound system that good, or a house big enough to put either in. The 0.001% that comprise us HT enthusiasts is a drop in the ocean by my reckoning. People will still go to the theaters to watch a movie simply because of the theater experience. But, to plays devil's advocate, let's assume that theater attendance drops by 25%. That would mean that those 25% of people are buying and/or renting those movies instead (I'll ignore people that go to the theater 10 times, since my guess is that they'd go anyways). The studio will get their money one way or another. A $25 collectors edition is the price of 3 theater tickets, and in addition more of it is profit since overhead is significantly lower (anyone have exact numbers on this?).
[/rant]
Again, I appologize for picking on your post, Byron. I just never cease to be inscenced when I hear the argument that you quoted.
-- Dave

 

[CaspianM]

Hollywood says that # of ticket sales are up every year.

So more are going to theater every year.

 

[Byron Miller]

Hollywood says that # of ticket sales are up every year.
So more are going to theater every year.

At the same time, the US population increases every year as well. More people probably saw Pootie Tang than lived in this country in 1900.

 

[CaspianM]

If I am not mistaken, it was up about 14% last year.

Is #s are increased per capita or not i don't know, you do the math.

 

[RobertR]

Is it really TICKET sales that are up, or REVENUES? There's a big difference.

 

[CaspianM]

Robert: It has been a while I read the report. Again the revenue was even higher a couple of points over ticket sale.

Having said that who minds if total revenue was up or ticket sales. The point was that they are not trying to catch up. I will try to find some source to back up the numbers if I can.

 

[CRyan]

I think I am starting to sound like a Mitsubishi fanboy. Far from it - I hate mitsubishi for their red-push fiasco.
However, not one person in this lenghty thread (some of the posters here have to own Mitsubishi HD sets) has mentioned the Mits. guarantee).
Not too mention, that Mits. and other consumer electronic manufacturers have worked together to produce a converter. Yes, this converter might cost $400, but I hope it will be less.
Current HDTV owners will not have their sets become obsolete. I know for sure my Mits. wont, and I am almost positive other manufacturers will follow suit.
Just figured I would type this one more time in this "high-profile" thread. I want everyone to know that at least a few manufacturers are working on and guaranteeing future compatibility.
C. Ryan
Oh and I did sign the petition. Thanks for the great work.

 

[John-Miles]

CRyan, I could be wrong but isn't the whoole point of the DMCA to prevent companies from making set top boxed and such to make older tv's work, because that could also be used for piracy? I dont know maybe I have misunderstood some stuff here.

In any case if i had soem gurantees I woud likely buy my new tv in the next few weeks, but as it stands now i think im waiting till the fall, and hopefully a DVi HDCP connection on the Toshiba I want.

 

[CRyan]

Yes, I understand your confusion. And, I do not understand it all to say the least. However, if a device (converter) cannot be made, my TV will be replaced by the manufacturer.

I guess I would have to doubt that other companies, without an agreement such as this, will go as far as to replace the sets. However, I do not know and have heard comments that Sony is also working on a converter. I do beleive that the newer models of HDTV's from Mitsubishi also have this agreement.

Anyway, Mitsubishi owners of the 2001 models and newer should not be extensively worried. However, who knows what the out-of-pocket expense will be for the upgrade or replacement. After talking to CS over there, it seems as though it will be relatively cheap.

C. Ryan

 

[Jack Briggs]

You know, this all boils down to the studios' paranoia regarding intellectual property. From their standpoint, HD broadcasts of their "property" will look almost indistinguishable from film, and in some cases better. What with digital recording technology, and, well, there you go.

This is a--I hope--final and quixotic last stand on the part of the studios to stem the tide of consumer control. Interesting, though, in that the consumer is paying for this content in the first place.

HD or not, people will still flock mindlessly to the commercial cinemas to see the latest shoot-'em-up/exploding-cars popcorn flick simply because they want to see it now.

The studios have fought every new technology every time. It's plain as can be. And then they realize, after the fact, how much money they can make off the new technologies.

Amazing. Such big companies, such old-school thinking.

 

[KC Alewine]

>However, not one person in this lenghty thread

>(some of the posters here have to own Mitsubishi

>HD sets) has mentioned the Mits. guarantee).

>

>Not too mention, that Mits. and other consumer

>electronic manufacturers have worked together to

>produce a converter. Yes, this converter might cost

>$400, but I hope it will be less.

"The Promise" was the ONLY reason I purchased a Mitsubishi RPTV 14 months ago. I was fully aware of the red push situation and actually preferred the styling on the Toshiba models, but I simply didn't want to take a chance on being caught in the lurch with HD standards still up in the air.

$400, $500, $1000? Who knows how much the "Promise Module" will cost us, but at least we can enjoy our HDTV now without worrying too much about what tomorrow will bring.

Petition signed also!

KC

 

[RyanDinan]

KC and CRyan,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "Mitsubishi Promise" only mentioned they would make an IEEE 1394 Firewire connection upgrade....Not a HDCP/DVI module. Here it is in writing:

"We will engineer and manufacture the upgrades necessary so the television you purchase today can be made compatible with near-future advances in digital television and digital interconnectivity. Specifically, we promise that you will be able to have your television upgraded, at a reasonable cost, to include an off-air HDTV tuner, a cable TV tuner (for unscrambled programming), an IEEE 1394 (FireWire®) connection, HAVi system control, and 5C copy protection."

Of course, they could always tack that one on.....?

-Ryan Dinan

 

[CRyan]

Well, you notice that the "promise" states that the TV will be made to accept digital OTA and cable signals. If those are encrypted by whatever means, then they will have to offer boxes that decript.

At least that is my take on it. I had a CS rep. go through it with me a few months ago. This was what I was made to beleive and how I actually read that statement.

The "promise" does not state inclusively that those formats will be the only ones supported, but says that your TV will be upgraded to accept OTA and cable HD television.

C. Ryan

 

[RyanDinan]

Well, that's how I would want understand it too......But let's just hope they deliver!

I really wish other manufacturers would step up and take the same attitude.

My Sony HS10 has RGBHV inputs (which I love), and Im afraid that IF Sony offers something similar, they'll get rid of them, as they did with the newer HS20/30 models (just ....I dont want to sacrifice one for the other....But I guess I should be more worried about them offering an upgrade..

-Ryan

 

[Ricardo C]

You know, this all boils down to the studios' paranoia regarding intellectual property. From their standpoint, HD broadcasts of their "property" will look almost indistinguishable from film, and in some cases better. What with digital recording technology, and, well, there you go.
This is a--I hope--final and quixotic last stand on the part of the studios to stem the tide of consumer control. Interesting, though, in that the consumer is paying for this content in the first place.
HD or not, people will still flock mindlessly to the commercial cinemas to see the latest shoot-'em-up/exploding-cars popcorn flick simply because they want to see it now.
The studios have fought every new technology every time. It's plain as can be. And then they realize, after the fact, how much money they can make off the new technologies.
Amazing. Such big companies, such old-school thinking.
My thoughts exactly

 

[JohnD_R_Rocha]

VicRuiz wrote an excellent letter to Hon. Tauzin. Hats off
As for the " They don't really care if the format fails. "
VicRuiz vaguely mentions this idea in his post. If the MPAA/CEA/whoever else pushes the DVI/HDCP with no cares and says 'screw all those early adopters, our money will come anyway', then the GOVERNMENT will definitely have a say in the matter. Why? Because this will jeopardize the MANDATED switch over to HD broadcasts and their subsequent auction of spectrum. In otherwords the format CAN'T fail, IMHO.
The question is will the GOV allow the MPAA-coalition to strong arm the requirements for the public(i.e. J6P) to actually view the HD content. I don't beleive so if they understand the overall implications on the economy.
We as early adopters can certainly back off the purchasing of any equipment related to HD like TVs and STBs with our "grass roots" efforts, and we can continue to inform the general public and consumer advocate organizations.
Excellent thread, one of the few I've kept up with for longer than a day.

 

[Matt Stryker]

Good article in USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/t...protection.htm
The petition got reset somehow on Saturday, but its back up to around 940 or so. The petition and the HTF may be mentioned in an upcoming USA Today article, so stay tuned.
EDIT: Over 1200 signatures and speeding up!

 

[Jeff Savage]

I also urge all of you to post feedback to the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade, and Consumer Protection ...

Vic -

I copied, pasted, and made the necesary changes to your letter to reflect my information at the web link you provided. It only took 2 min. Now if we all do this someone is sure to take notice. Thanks for the excellent letter.

Laters,

Jeff