HD question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Anthony Moore, Jul 8, 2002.

  1. Anthony Moore

    Anthony Moore Supporting Actor

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    I will soon purchase an HDTV (probably the Sony Grand Wega) and have a few questions.

    I know they are "newbie" questions, but Ive never really wandered to the VIDEO side of the HTF before.

    1. What equiptment will I need to get HD TV shows? Can I use the regular DirecTV dish? And what about the reciever? Does it need to be HD also?

    2. Which DVD's will fill up the whole 16:9 set? 1:1:85? 1:2.35? Anamorphic only? And what about the one's that dont? Are there black bars then?

    3. When I do get HDTV reception, will all HD shows/movies (on HBO, Discovery, HDNet, etc..) fill up the whole 16:9 screen and be correct?

    4. When I watch regular TV, 4:3, on it, how does it look? Does it stretch the image out? Does it look good?


    Thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. Jonathan Smith

    Jonathan Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    I am pretty new to the video side of things myself, but I think I can answer your questions:

    1. You need an elliptical dish and an HD receiver.

    2. There will be small black bars unless the DVD is done in 16:9 (I don't think there are any that are?) They will be much smaller than the ones on a 4:3 set would be.

    3. HD is broadcast in 16:9, so HD shows will fill the entire screen.

    4. That is one of the important factors in choosing your TV. You can watch 4:3 shows in 4:3, but then you get bars on the sides and risk burn in (you can do a search for burn in and find all kinds of info on this forum). There is also a stretch mode that will make the 4:3 broadcast fill the whole screen, and you should look at a bunch of TVs to see which one does that in a way that is least objectionable to you.
     
  3. Anthony Moore

    Anthony Moore Supporting Actor

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  4. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    The confusion here stems from asking if there are any DVDs presenting programs exactly in the 1.78:1 (16:9) aspect ratio. And the answer to that is yes. One of the most high-profile such titles is Walking With Dinosaurs.

    On any disc being displayed on a 16:9 set, 16:9-encoded or letterboxed 4:3, there will be black bars on the top and bottom of the screen if the film's aspect ratio is wider than 1.78:1. Just smaller, is all.

    * No, you cannot use a "regular" DirecTV dish and receiver to convert programming into high def; you need a high-def receiver and an elliptical dish.

    Woops! Looks like your questions have already been answered!
     
  5. Robert_J

    Robert_J Lead Actor

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  6. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Theoretically, a 1:85 aspect ratio dvd will have tiny black bars on a 16/9 (1:78 aspect ratio) set. In practice every widescreen set I've seen has had enough overscan to eliminate these tiny bars. A 2:35 film will have black bars roughly equivalent to a 1:85 film displayed on a 4/3 set.

    Although most newer action films and many non-action titles are 2:35, there are still a large number of 1:85 movies out there--The Jurassic Park trilogy, A Beautiful Mind, and many others.

    All true HD will be 16/9, but much of what's on the HD channels, with the exception of HDNet, is upconverted ntsc and will be presented in a 4/3 aspect ratio with black bars on the sides. This is especially prevalent on local OTA HD channels as almost none of the daytime and not all of the primetime stuff is in true HD.

    HDNet is 16hrs a day of true HD, most of it video based and is really demo quality.

    HBO and Showtime are a bit of a mix, overall most of the movies, especially newer ones, are 16/9. HBO crops some 2:35 films to 1:85, Showtime doesn't. More of Showtime's original series are in HD than HBO's. Odyssey 5, one of Showtime's newer sci-fi series, is actually shot with HD video cameras instead of filmed, and looks very nice.

    Having become accustomed to watching widescreen movies in their OAR on 4/3 televisions for the last couple of years, it almost doesn't seem like I'm watching a real movie if I don't see black bars, lol, so 2:35 films on my widescreen set just don't bother me.
     
  7. LaMarcus

    LaMarcus Screenwriter

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    They bother me!!!! I hate to see them on my 65" widescreen[​IMG] , but on the 36"(4x3)I'm with Steve, I wanna see blackbars, it's like the reminder that's its a DVD. But sometimes I wont buy a DVD unless it's 1.85 or lower. Only time I buy 2.35 DVD's is if it's something I really want or if they tricked me and the box says anamorphic enhanced for 16x9 tv's and it still is 2.35[​IMG] , aarrgh!!!!
    Does anyone share my feelings? I want the biggest picture possible that's why I got this huge tv (until FP), and I already have to reduce the size of the 2.35 for the overscan(5% on my tv), so then it's even smaller, I'm cursed by 2.35!!!
     
  8. Michael Silla

    Michael Silla Second Unit

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    LaMarcus,
    I will respectfully disagree. In practice, I really don't mind those bars on my widescreen set (53 inch Hitachi). As expressed ad nauseum on the Software forum, I'd rather see the film as the director intended it to be viewed. I don't want to miss ANY of the picture.
    My humble opinion [​IMG]
    Michael.
     
  9. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    LaMarcus,

    A movie can still be 2.35:1 and be anamorphic - It's not lying to you.
    "Anamorphic Widescreen" or "Enhanced for 16x9 TV's" just means that the movie can be correctly displayed in a 16x9 aspect ratio - It doesn't mean the movie must fill the whole 16x9 area.

    Most (movie) DVD's are 1.85:1 or 2.35:1. Since 1.85:1 is very close to 16x9 (1.78:1), you normally don't see the tiny black bars that they have. 2.35:1 however, is a wider aspect than 16x9, and requires black bars to keep the original aspect ratio. Unless your set was a 2.35:1 TV (which don't exist) instead of 16x9, you're gonna have black bars. 16x9 was picked as the aspect ratio of HDTV because it was a nice "in-between" aspect of 1.66:1 and 2.35:1.

    Anamorphic transfers of DVD's logically kept 16x9 as the aspect ratio of choice, since that was what the future of TV's would be....

    Don't get mad - be happy that youre seeing the entire film. People get all worked up over black bars.....
    In movie theaters, they use one screen, and project multiple aspect ratios on it - So in reality, there are unused areas of the screen - "black bars" if you will - in movie theaters. You just don't pay attention to them because it's really dark, and really big. That's why getting a BIG 16x9 set is better for 2.35:1 movie watching...

    -Ryan Dinan
     
  10. Jan Strnad

    Jan Strnad Screenwriter

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    About stretch mode on widescreen TVs:

    My Toshiba 42H81 has four stretch modes.

    "Full" stretches the 4:3 picture uniformly to fill the 16:9 screen.

    "Theater Wide 1" stretches the picture non-uniformly. The center remains close to its true proportions while the edges are stretched more to fill the screen.

    "Theater Wide 2" enlarges the entire picture uniformly to fill the 16:9 screen. There is no distortion, but you lose picture at the top and bottom of the screen. You can scroll this picture up and down to control which portion of the picture is cut off.

    "Theater Wide 3" is a compromise between 1 and 2. The picture is stretched but only slightly, and some picture is cut off top and bottom (but less than with 2).

    And of course you can go the "normal" route and show a 4:3 picture with gray bands on the sides, but risk burn-in over a period of time.

    Jan
     
  11. Anthony Moore

    Anthony Moore Supporting Actor

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    Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the info. A couple more questions:

    What about to watch a progressive scan movie? I know I need a prog. scan player, but do I need anything else?

    What are the "decoders" or "set top boxes"they sell, and what do I need them for? For dvd's? sat ?

    thanks again
     
  12. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    Anthony,

    For progressive-scan output, you also need a TV that is capable of accepting a 480p scanrate - All current HDTV's will.
    These set-top-boxes are for receiving and decoding HDTV signals. They grab over-the-air (OTA) signals (if you live in an area that broadcasts HDTV - NBC, CBS, ABC, etc) with a regular antenna, and some come integrated with satellite support (DirecTV). Various manufacturers make these such as Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Samsung, etc. DISH (Echostar) however, has it's own proprietary HD set-top-box - the 6000 receiver - which can only be used with DISH service - OTA can be added with an optional OTA tuner cartrige.
    DISH and DirecTV are in the process of a merger however, so hardware replacement is going to have to happen - they say free of charge. This will happen several years down the road, but no one wants to see their expensive STB receiver of their choice, get replaced by something "cheap" that the merged company thinks they should get.

    -Ryan Dinan
     
  13. LaMarcus

    LaMarcus Screenwriter

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    Mike, I don't think you understood me all the way, I am diffinately with you when it comes to OAR, there is nothin else! If you recall I said I even increase the size of the bars because of the over scan, I don't wanna miss one inch of picture!!
    Ryan, maybe I just don't understand the definition of "enhanced". I think I have enhanced confused with enlarged. I thought that if it is enhanced for 16x9 tv's it means it will fill the screen, if not what's the difference if you have a 4x3 set, unless they mean resolution only when they say enhanced.
     
  14. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    LaMarcus,

    Yeah, "enhanced" simply means that the image (whether the aspect ratio be 1.85:1, 2.35:1, 1.78:1, etc) will appear undistorted when displayed on a 16x9 widescreen TV (or a 4x3 TV with a 16x9 squeeze).
    It's "enhanced" because more lines of vertical resolution can be used for the actual image, instead of black bars, since the transfer only has to go from 1.78:1 (16x9) to whatever aspect ratio the film is, rather than 1.33:1 (4x3) to whatever aspect ratio the film is. Enhanced transfers give 33% more vertical resolution than a 4x3 transfers.

    -Ryan Dinan
     
  15. LaMarcus

    LaMarcus Screenwriter

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    Thanks Ryan. You kinda messed up my whole position on 2.35, cus now I have to buy them for the increase of resolution...damn you!!!![​IMG]
     

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