HD DVD Sales Staging Comeback-'Planet Earth' Breaks New Amazon Record. (1 Viewer)

[DaViD Boulet]

Peter,

if games lose money, and the PS2 lost money on every sale, then how (why?) did Sony bother to produce and market the system? Everything I've ever read has stated that Sony made back the losses on gaming hardware by profits on gaming software. If that's not the case, then what other source does the profit come from?

Or has the model changed fundamentally in the last few years such that game-systems can no longer produce profit regardless.



So I suppose that Toshiba, Warner, Fox, Paramount, and Disney all make up the losses on their hardware with their software sales?



But yes, in royalites the studios do give a small cut to companies who hold those patents... but this does not include the comprehensive list of hardware manufacturers.

Toshiba stands to make some royalies off of HD DVD (why they want it to survive), so in the long-term they're betting that this will offset their *temporary* subsidizing of their hardware today.

However, for that model to play out, HD DVD (software) would need to expand its reach dramatically and they need the manufacturing costs to shift such that they can continue to sell hardware at affordable prices without losing money. They also need other manufacturers to be able to do the same.

Sony wants royalties out of BD as well. Though I doubt they'd be able to sustain the losses on the PS3 sales on BD-movie royalties alone, until a larger base of other-brand players starts to ratchet up sales volume for the discs.

With only Toshiba really making HD DVD players (at present), every additional HD DVD customer who would increase their software-reach is also making them take a hit on hardware.

 

[ReggieW]

David,

You're thinking of Samsung NOT Onkyo. The Samsung press release for the duo player stated that they would consider a stand-alone HD-DVD player if consumers demanded it. The Onkyo press release simply said they WERE RELEASING an HD-DVD player in 2007. Here is the press release as written from the Onkyo USA site:

Onkyo to Launch HD DVD Player in 2007
01/08/07 -
Las Vegas, January 2007 – Onkyo Corporation today announced plans to launch its first HD DVD player for the North American market in 2007. HD DVD is the next generation DVD format approved by the DVD Forum.

Today, the global environment for audio visual products has changed dramatically; large screen HDTV sales have been growing and consumer demand for the high definition content is increasing. In parallel with the expansion of digital broadcasting services, DVD has been required to provide much more data capacity and higher density, which HD DVD can fulfill.

Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD 5.1 channel audio processing formats are supported by HD DVD, which allows consumers to enjoy a high quality home theater experience. HD DVD also will offer the advanced content and features such as active menus and PinP video adopted by HD DVD.

Onkyo will introduce an HD DVD player initially in the North American market, where there is a strong demand for packaged media in high definition with the increasing large screen HDTVs market, and then plans to further expand to other markets. Onkyo also plans to develop AV receivers to enjoy attractive and vigorous HD DVD content through a single HDMI cable that transfers video, audio and control signals.

Details of the Onkyo HD DVD player for North America, including launch timing, specifications and specifics of the launch in other regions along with future AV receivers will be announced separately.

Press Contact:
Paul Wasek , Marketing Manager, ONKYO U.S.A. Corporation
18 Park Way, Upper Saddle River, NJ 07458
Tel : 201-785-2610, Fax : 201-785-2650

Dolby is a registered trademark of Dolby Laboratories.
DTS is a registered trademark of DTS, Inc.
HDMI is a registered trademark or a trademark of HDMI Licensing L.L.C.

I stand by my previous statement that Onkyo will announce an HD-DVD player in the coming months.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Thanks!

 

[Ryan-G]

He's correct, I think you're reading his post wrong.

He is talking about the profits Sony makes from PS3 games sold, which is high, and which you yourself state in your second paragraph. The risk in Game Development isn't Sony's problem, and doesn't affect their profitability outside of SOE. As such, DaViD's statements are correct. How many copies Studio X sold doesn't matter to Sony, only that Studio X, Y, Z, Z2, Z3, Zetc and so on made and sold games, all of which creates a combined income stream for them of essentially free money.

As far as Game Development costs/risks goes, you're entirely correct. But the foundation of that problem is that Art costs are ridiculously high, there are few tools to speed up the art development sector in any meaningfull way, and the Publishers demand sequel after sequel instead of letting Dev's make the games they want to make, because Publisher's aren't willing to risk innovation.

You're also 100% correct on the problems Sony now faces with the PS3, but the problems are much more significant than you allude to. Cell is a foreign architecture that is inherently difficult to develop for and port to, so should the PS3's installed base remain weak for any significant time, Dev's are quickly going to shift over to 360/PC development. Games easily port between them, and it gives them two large markets. PS3 OTOH is either going to have significantly higher port costs, or lock the dev into a platform with low sales. If the PS3 doesn't sell, the Dev's will go elsewhere, and fewer PS3's will sell. There's a very real chance Sony may never recoup the Dev costs of PS3 right now.

 

[Tim Glover]

At the risk of getting back on topic ...Presently, the Planet Earth HD DVD is at #7. BD version is #13. I am still VERY surprised how well this is selling for both sides given the $69.95 price.

Maybe both HD camps have people that really are somewhat educated.

It's actually kind of cool.

 

[MarekM]

moving up and down every minute

HD DVD #5
Blu-ray #9



Marek

 

[Chris S]

The DigitalBits.com posted the Nielsen/Videscan numbers for the week ending 4/29 and I'm honestly a little shocked by the outcome. Anyone else surprised the numbers aren't closer?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Do the Neilson numbers exclude on-line purchases?

 

[Douglas Monce]

This show was a HUGE hit for Discovery Channel, and I think lots of people saw it in standard def and thought "that would look amazing in HD". Plus they want something that really shows off their HD system.

Doug

 

[Juan C]

We have now a "top 10 hidef sellers" chart that contains both BD and HD titles.

1. Night at the Museum BD 100.00
2. Deja Vu BD 75.04
3. Planet Earth HD DVD 32.78
4. Planet Earth BD 24.14
5. The Queen BD 17.29
6. Smokin' Aces HD DVD 17.24
7. Casino Royale BD 14.33
8. Happy Feet BD 7.19
9. Black Hawk Down BD 7.05
10. The Departed BD 5.82

So you see, that despite Planet Earth HD having consistently much better sales ranking on amazon than Night at the Museum BD, the actual sales of NatM BD tripled sales of the Planet Earth HD DVD (in units).

 

[John H Ross]

Yep, you nailed it totally. I'm betting it has nothing to do with the quality of the show, and more to do with the pretty pictures. I wonder how many people will actually sit down and watch this (properly) more than once, or would actually have bought it on regular DVD, or would now rush out and buy the equally excellent The Blue Planet on DVD. In fact, hands up who already has The Blue Planet?

It's a demo disc, pure and simple. And a very expensive one at that.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Well to be fair I hear that the program is really very good and probably one of the best nature programs ever done. But nature programs don't normally get people all that excited.

Doug

 

[Cees Alons]

It's even more telling if you consider the price. We're talking about a box set, of $70, not a $20 disc!

The images are certainly a big part of the attraction of this set, but I think that the content itself must surely play a part too.


Cees

 

[Yumbo]

The content is compelling.

 

[Tim Glover]

The lastest rankings on amazon. I know....they mean absolutely nothing right?

 

[Jason Seaver]

I'm guessing they mean Amazon is selling players for $250-300 (didn't one of their merchants just drop the HD-A2 to $240 this weekend?) and people are buying movies to play on them. It'll be interesting to see if all the players Toshiba appears to be moving will translate into sustained software sales.

 

[Shawn Perron]

The fools on avsforum had another buy day on the 28th:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=840632
...which tells you how few people it takes to push Amazon around. The Blu-Ray people there had a buy day on the 27th which is why you see the uptick there as well. After seeing how few people can change the rankings so drastically, it makes you realize what a worthless barometer Amazon really is.

 

[Romar Armas]

Actually, what it shows is how little the adoption rate of Hi Def movies is.

 

[ppltd]

I won't hazard a guess as to what it means, other than comparativly speaking, the HD DVD Planet Earth is still higher rated than the POC flicks. Make of that what you will.

As far as the quality (both visual and content wise), Planet Earth is top notch.

 

[Paul Arnette]

So, I went to Wal-Mart this weekend, I saw 0 copies of Planet Earth (on either format), and 0 copies of The Matrix Trilogy (either collection), and 4 copies each of the Pirates movies. Why? Price point.

So, when the sales stats come out, don't be too surprised if the number of units of Pirates sold doesn't track along with Amazon's ranking. Amazon is simply not a good enough indicator of HD optical media sales in and of itself.