HD-DVD on EDTV?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by jim.vaccaro, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. jim.vaccaro

    jim.vaccaro Second Unit

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    As the owner of a SP4805, I'm curious...has anyone here tried their shiny new HD-DVD players on an EDTV display, be it plasma or front projection? I'd like to know if anyone's noticed any difference between HD-DVD downrezzed to EDTV and the equivalent DVD on EDTV. Thanks.
     
  2. Benson R

    Benson R Supporting Actor

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    I dont have hdtv, but I have watched my high definition cable box on my 4805 and my x1 and on both it was noticeably better then dvd.

    This has been discussed at avs and I believe it was explained that even though you can only still see 480 lines of resolution, on a dvd there is only 480 lines of resolution in the luminance part of the video signal and less then that in the chroma signal. If you feed the 4805 a 1080i or 720p signal you will see more color resolution then you can get from a sd-dvd. Also I think most dvds are way over filtered and high definition content does not have that problem.

    I would also be interested though to hear feedback from 4805 owners that have tried out hd-dvd. At the low price point compared with all the positive reviews I have found myself very tempted to start investing in hd-dvd now instead of waiting like I planned.
     
  3. Sami Kallio

    Sami Kallio Screenwriter

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    Given the small number of HD releases I would wait if I was you. There is definately a big leap in PQ going to 1080p but some of that is already taken away with 720p. On a 480p, all things considered, I don't feel you're getting much for your money.

    I don't know if I can test it with my 480i FP but if I can I will try it out and tell how it looks.
     
  4. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    If you can tell the difference between HDTV and DVD on your TV ... then you will see a difference with HD DVD. If not ... then you won't.

    Regards
     
  5. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    I'm in the exact same boat. My current main display device is an Infocus 4805; and, like you, I've noticed that Charter HD cable often looks (marginally) better than upscaled DVD on my system.

    About a month ago I decided to wait until July 2007 to upgrade to a HD optical format. I feel like by then we'll have a better idea as to which way the wind is blowing; and there may even be a DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-ray combo deck available. My IF 4805 will be two years old by then so I'll also consider upgrading to a IN76 at the same time.

    In the meantime I have to tell you that the DVDs' that I've purchased over the past two years have consistently looked extremely good as displayed by the IF 4805; so I really don't feel a pressing need to update early.
     
  6. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    Seeing as most EDTVs I've tested can't even reproduce what DVD has to offer I think I'm missing the point here.
     
  7. jim.vaccaro

    jim.vaccaro Second Unit

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    I thought my question was plain enough, but maybe not. I'm wondering if 1080i HD-DVD scaled to 480p on the Infocus SP4805 will look noticeably better than 480i DVD deinterlaced to 480p on the same projector. What do you think?
     
  8. Sami Kallio

    Sami Kallio Screenwriter

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    "noticeably" could be defined differently by different people but I'm putting my money on the "no" side. Pick up a HD-DVD player from a store that doesn't charge restocking fee and see for yourself, that's the best way to find out.
     
  9. Joseph Bolus

    Joseph Bolus Cinematographer

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    Jim,

    A few people at AVS have tried this combo, and they took the players back citing that there wasn't enough difference to warrant the purchase. I would think that the main benefit would be a freedom from EE and MPEG-2 compression artifacts and perhaps a little better color saturation. (Of course, a well-mastered DVD would already be mostly free of these artifacts, and you can get the better color saturation via an upscaling player utilizing your DVI input.)

    I think you would be better served to save up for a IN76 and wait for things to shake out a little in the format wars. Toshiba just yesterday stated that they still want a unified format(?)
     
  10. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/

    The following web site has done a comparison of DVD to HD taking the original HD signal and downconverting it to the same resolution that you would see on an ED set.

    It's pretty eye opening. DVD upconverted to the ED panel versus HD down converted to the ED panel.

    No difference? Hardly.

    Regards
     
  11. jim.vaccaro

    jim.vaccaro Second Unit

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    Michael, that link would be just the thing I was looking for....but I can't the get the site to open right now, heh. Thanks though.
     
  12. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    The link is good ... but your end is likely filtering ... so take a look later on.

    regards
     
  13. jim.vaccaro

    jim.vaccaro Second Unit

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    Ah, it works now! There's QUITE a bit of difference there! Very interesting.
     
  14. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    It's a simulation, your mileage will vary with real world output and material.

    A lot of EDTVs will wash out color, black level, etc so the comparison is a LOT closer than you may think than a simple filter/downsample.
     
  15. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Well since you can't overlay the HD image on the SD image since their size is obviously different, all you can do is pretty much what was done in the demo. Resize the HD one down to the ED panel size and upconvert the DVD to the ED panel size.

    Yes, in the end, YMMV ... because displays are different. But it would be a mistake to just dismiss the notion that HD might still look noticeably better than DVD even on ED type displays. It is always easier to create a better image by throwing away information ... in the case of HD to ED ... compared to scaling up a DVD to fit the ED panel.

    The biggest difference is you do away with the mpeg compression artefacts/edginess readily seen on the DVD and more non-existent on the HD end. Don't forget that the HD presentation also has a larger color palette to work with.

    One must also remember that in real life ... both the SD sources and the Hd sources have to be separately calibrated.

    Regards
     
  16. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Should also mention that a while ago, when I still had my old Panasonic AE100 LCD projector ... (long ago) An ED projector ... I would routinely play HDTV material on it and it was still very apparent that it was HD. I could never confuse it with DVD.

    Most eyeopening at the time was a presentation of the film Galaxyquest in HD and I cued up my DVD to do an A-B test. The cleaness of the HD image and the additional color palette made it very apparent what was what. Suddenly the DVD didn't look so great anymore. [​IMG] All on ED too ...

    ymmv ... and your 4805 is generally considered to be better than that old Panasonic LCD i used.

    REgards
     

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