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Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Pete T C, Jan 7, 2007.
On both recordable and ROM media!
I thought since triple layer HD DVD isn't in the current HD DVD specs that it wasn't going to be pursued, or at least a viable option since current players couldn't use it. Maybe a firmware update will allow this?
The DL 50gig disc on blu-ray is a big reason why I chose to go with that format. So far it is proven and on the market. Had HD DVD come up with this sooner, say at last years CES, I would have been all over it. Besides, haven't HD DVD supporters for the past year been shouting that 30gigs is all you really need for movies?
This is good for HD-DVD and really shows the committment from Toshiba and the HD-DVD group. With the just announced HD-DVD players from Onkyo & Meridian arriving in 2007, along with the already hot selling XBox HD-DVD add on, HD-DVD seems poised for a great year.
So I guess the question is do current HD-DVD players simply need a firmware upgrade or do they not have the hardware necessary to utilize these discs?
All it said was the 3-layer media they've been working on now holds 50gigs instead of 45. It's not really a major development, although it does show they haven't given up on the idea.
well its loooooooong way to 50GB
Originally Posted by amirm
The format is actually 51 gigabytes (17 gigabytes/layer). And it is just at technology proposal at this point. They would need to submit it to DVD Forum for approval. Once we are through that cycle, then one can determine whether it plays or does not (DVD Forum may modify their proposal before ratification).
So at this point, think of it as Honda winning a Formula 1 race with a new engine, and not ready yet to tell you if it fits in your regular car . But should make you feel good that HD DVD engineers are not sitting around but continuing to innovate.
and no mention about bandwith.....
This software is too far down the road to be worry about today's players being able to play them.
I'll have to see it to believe it. They already promised 45 GB triple layer discs that never materialized. I'll file this one alongside the 100 GB Blu-ray discs.
Toshiba and the HD-DVD group never promised triple-layered discs -- they simply debuted a prototype in 2005 and showed the possibility. This is the first time they have announced the disc as an upcoming entity with a timetable. Given Toshiba's committment to HD-DVD, I would definitely expect these discs to arrive in '07. Blu-Ray is quickly running out of "superiority" claims -- both theoretical and real-world.
What timetable? They don't even know if it will work with current players and it's only in proposal stage. As mentioned before BD has 100 & 200gb discs in the pipeline as well.
BD50's are here already and in full flow. And I thought HD-DVD didn't need 50GB discs?
Bleh. Semantics. Toshiba threw out the 45 GB disc specs to try and steal some thunder from Blu-ray. They're doing the same thing with this new 50 GB disc. It's not part of the HD-DVD spec so it's doubtful that current players could even play the things.
There's just no arguing that Blu-ray has the storage advantage in the real world. It's 50 GB for Blu-ray and 30 GB for HD-DVD. End of discussion. And in the theoretical world, Blu-ray holds an advantage as well, with TDK recently showing off a 200 GB Blu-ray disc and Panasonic showing a 100 GB disc. Of course, just like the 50 GB HD-DVD, I doubt we ever see a pre-recorded movie come on one of these 100-200 GB discs.
You HD-DVD guys are making it harder and harder for me to stay format neutral. The amount of fud you spout is unbelievable.
well last time I checked, Blu-ray is still on top, both theaoretical and real-world.
You guys are assuming that this is in any way related to HD-DVD movie software, which might be a bit premature. This may be strictly limited to computer storage and software distribution, which would make sense since adding new specs to a PC format is expected as time goes on. Really, they'd have to match the 50GB that Blu-Ray brings to PC storage to make it seem a worthwhile storage method for large volumes of data. There's not nearly as much incentive to store mass amounts of data on a 30GB format when there is a viable 50GB format available at the same time. Anyone that truly needs that much storage capacity would probably rather have 150GB on 3 50GB BD discs rather then 5 30GB HD-DVD discs. Unless HD-DVD had a huge advantage in price, there'd be no real incentive to adopt it as a storage medium.
I really don't see the current HD-DVD (or Blu-Ray) specs changing much because making any of the current players incompatible would hurt thier cause much more then it would help. I can only imagine that the triple layer discs would cause no end of trouble for a multi format player like the LG.
It would be unlikey that Toshiba would make a running-change to the HD DVD spec it if hurt early adoptors by not being backwards compatible with the already-released hardware. As others have said, first this needs to get approved by the DVD forum before the discussion can go any further. Amir over at AVS has been sharing some info but so far it's still unclear if all existing Toshiba players would be able to physically-read the discs. If they could, then theoretically a firmware upgrade could make this new spec able to be adopted.
But just as others have said, BD already has 100 and 200 gig discs on the drawing board that could be viable at some point but weren't written into the spec at launch. The same applies to that as well... with the same potential for problems with early gear.
Both 50 gig HD DVD and 100 gig BD will probably be reserved for PC use if they do indeed come to market. Though only time will tell. It should be clear that the real reason behind this 50 gig annoucement is really about trying to steal some BD thunder while CES is underway... the same way that the 45 gig vaporware disc was announced at CEDIA (but never went any further). See a trend?
Not only that, but the layers on these 51GB discs would have to be 17GB per layer. Wouldn't that make the discs physically different then the current discs that have 15GB layers? It just doesn't add up. Adding a 3rd 15GB layer would make sense since it's been discussed, but adding 2GB per layer in addition to a 3rd layer seems kind of odd. If they had the capability of doing 17GB per layer, why didn't they do that from the start? To me this just seems like a new variant for PC usage, which would make sense since that's related to where this news story originates from.
Some interesting comments from Amir at AVS:
Originally Posted by RobertR1
What is the motivation behind HD50 aside from "hey, look what we did!" Seeing that you have stated that no HD DVD studios have asked for more space, thus TL45 was never an issue. Have their been inquiries or interest from non HD DVD supporters in regards to needing extra space for whatever reason, in order for them to possible look into support HD DVD?
This is really a question for Toshiba to answer. We are not joint designers on this thing . So I can only offer you opinions and that is it. My first opinion is that it is silly to assume that once Toshiba engineers invented HD DVD, Toshiba fired them all . They are still there, and still innovating.
Second is what you say. If there is a content owner out there thinking they will die without 50 gigabytes, well, Toshiba has one better, literally.
Third, I can confirm again that none of the studios using HD DVD today are asking for TL, 45 or 51 gigabytes.
Also, when will this proposal be presented to the DVD Forum? The TL45 never made it to the meeting table. Will HD50?
It is up to Toshiba. In their presentation, they said they expect standardization to be completed by Q4, 2007. So I guess this means they will submit it soon.
Thanks and enjoy Vegas!!!
Will do. I have to get some sleep as it is 12:19am! But here is one more thing to keep you all busy discussing this topic. TL-51 has higher bandwidth because it packs the bits closer and spins the drive at 1.5X I believe. So it goes exactly where BD-50 is today and maybe passes it a bit... Quite an amazing technological feat considering the fact that it does not resort to .1mm recording and all the grief that comes wiht that...
HD DVD insider
VC-1 insider in BD/HD DVD
It sounds like B.S to me. I'll believe it when I can actually see it work. Right now, Blu has a 50G disc that works. It isn't just a bunch of hot air like this Tri-layer 50G disc is. They announce it as if they all ready have a working prototype, but they have no demonstration of it at the show where they made the announcement? It's garbage.
So optimally what sort of time frame are we looking at? End of '07 to get it added to the HD-DVD spec and another year for mastering and hardware playback?
What happened to "30gb is plenty!!!"
I had a problem with that when Toshiba made that claim months ago. But after giving HD-DVD a try a forgot about it. Now they are going to say they want to come out with a 50 gig 3 layer disc, mmmmmm I though they said 30 gigs was plenty as well. Sounds like all of us 1st gen adopters may get hosed. Especially if our players can not play the tripple layer discs and Toshiba can not update the current players.