HD-DVD forum rejects Toshiba/NEC Blue Laser format (1 Viewer)

[Joe Schwartz]

Caddy or not, my complaint about Blu-Ray is that it still uses MPEG-2 compression instead of MPEG-4 (or even Windows Media 9). The T2 Extreme DVD illustrates that you can get an excellent HD image at DVD capacity and bitrate using a better codec (WM9). The best format for HD-DVD will be one that uses increased capacity (blue laser) and more efficient compression (MPEG-4, WM9, etc).

 

[Scott L]

my complaint about Blu-Ray is that it still uses MPEG-2 compression instead of MPEG-4 (or even Windows Media 9)

You sure about this? I was under the impression H.264 was the top candidate for the next format codec.

 

[Sean Laughter]

Yeah, does Blu-Ray even have an "official" codec for playback use yet? I thought it was just a physical disc standard at this point.

 

[Joe Schwartz]

Everything I've read about Blu-Ray specifies MPEG-2 as the codec. Search on Google for "Blu-Ray" and "MPEG" to find many press releases. Here's one example:

http://www.licensing.philips.com/information/bd/

H.264 was one of the codecs proposed by Warner for HD quality on red-laser DVDs.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

MPEG-2 is what it's based on yes

 

[DaViD Boulet]

The best format for HD-DVD will be one that uses increased capacity (blue laser) and more efficient compression (MPEG-4, WM9, etc).

Agreed.

 

[Kevin M]

I would be surprised if the HD-DVD consortium didn't use a newer more efficient codec at the end of the day. It doesn't make sense to go with a codec that is over eight years old when much more efficient space saving codecs/algorithms exist now.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Hey Kevin,

Indeed the DVD forum was/is planning on using a more modern codec (microsoft's?) for HD-DVD...but BluRay isn't being developed by the forum...

-dave

 

[Alex Spindler]

David, are you sure that they settled on Microsoft's codec? I was under the impression H.264 was on even ground with it and was still in the running.
Thanks for the clarification David.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Sorry...meant to put a "?" after that...i've edited my post to reflect...

 

[Kevin M]

Damn, so is blu-ray disc technology even being considered as a possible containment/transport for any official HD-DVD format that the DVD forum finalizes? Could it be utilized?

 

[Richard Paul]

A big problem with using a codec beside MPEG-2 would be cost. It still costs over $300 for an ATSC tuner and since all Blu-ray recorders need one (in ATSC countries) it would be much cheaper for them to just use MPEG-2. This would also apply to countries that don't use ATSC but are using MPEG-2 in their digital broadcasts. Though the Blu-ray standard is based on MPEG-2 there is no reason to think that the pre-recorded standard may not include another codec.

 

[ChrisA]

Hi David,

I've been so busy... All I can say is the same things we have been saying in the HD-DVD petition or should I say HDVD, not that it matters... Just bring on the Blue Ray, give me that nice bandwidth and nice storage! I'll still take 20/48 MLP over 24/96 DTS, but I could live with DTS running at much higher bitrates.

Not sure how much I'd word the DVD petition differently, perhaps refinement of some technical wording, but the CRUX of the petition is excellent and conveys the meaning of what we have all been talking about.

I look forward to buying the first Blu-Ray disc! Anything else new? I don't have as much time as I used to, but I still watch movies all the time... just don't have time to participate on forums as much.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Hey Chris!

Long time to type...

Yes...BluRay does seem to come closest to our petition out of everything that was "on the table". Too bad FMD didn't pan out :frowning:

What else is new? For folks like me *still* saving up for their first projector lots of cool stuff happening in the world of digital projectors...falling prices and improving technology (LCD, DLP, and SXRD).

How's the CRT projector holding up? Still using the modified DVD player with cinematrix?

dave

 

[ChrisA]

How's the CRT projector holding up? Still using the modified DVD player with cinematrix?

Two thoughts:

1) Unfortunately yes... Adrian Alexander ended up totally ripping me off on a Merdian 800 and Faroudja NRS approximately 1.5 years ago. Additionally, Key Digital had come out with a scaler card for the Meridian 800 which was an all digital pathway, which would have been incredible. What can I say but that hurt a lot. Residency is getting more demanding as I start my 4th year of a 5 year total residency: Physics boards in 2 months, Wriiten boards in 1 year 2 months, and finally, oral boards in 1 year 11 months.... not mention increasing expectations on knowledge base and performance as I get closer to the end... Bought a house--needs work, computer problems, broken electronics (always something)... I'll stop there.

2) The Cinemtarix with the Sony 7700 DVD player has to be the best bargain around (considering how much use I got already and the excellent picture quality vs how little cost) although I don't think you can get them anymore? I heard there was a PSM-2 (Cinematrix 2) but I'm not sure. There are so many similar pieces and other affordable ways to get a decent picture for a reasonable amount of money. Anyway, I'm broke now and Adrian (Formerly Fusion Media/Adrian's Home theater) left me high and dry.

I'm not upgrading anything significant for probably 3 years (until I finish Residency and a year of fellowship). I can hopefully celebrate by building a house/custom A/V room, and get a 1080p projector with a nice 120 inch diag screen. Another advantage to true 1080p resolution and a bright digital projector (instead of a 9 inch CRT which is limited in brightness) would be the ability to use larger screens such as 120 or even 140 inch diagonal screens if so desired. The Dwin HD700 CRT projector remains to be an incredible value, bright (enough), and beautiful picture that digital projectors still can't touch, although my guess is that the newer projectors and screens are going to eliminate previous complaints about black levels and pixelation, etc... The high density 1080p capable digital projectors sound like the real deal... I look forward to being able to afford the latest and greatest in a few years.

That being said, it would be very easy to buy a Blu-Ray HDVD player and use it with the Dwin HD-700. I'm sure they would also include at least 2 or 3 output resolution choices: 720p 768p (for plasma screens, etc) and 1080p. I will upgrade and purchase a Blu Ray as soon as they are available... that I will definitely do! If I wasn't so strapped for cash right now, I would have bought a D-VHS player just because of the sheer performance increase. Nice to see releases starting to come out day and date with DVD.

One thing is for sure... if you could experience the tactile platform I built with 2 Buttkickers and 13 feet wide of contuniuos armless chaise lounges... you'd never go back to watching movies without tactile feedback... it is UNANIMOUS with everybody who comes over...Do you know what it is like to feel the horses stampeding by you in "Gladiator"? Do you know how it feels to be a part of a movie? A properly installed tactile trandsducer setup will make you think you were actually a PART of the movie, not watching a movie. There is so much more I've said a long time ago when I started this thread and it all holds up. The Matrix is so much better on my theater it is a JOKE, but I could not hold out for that one, so I suffered through a bland experience at the newest theater "United Artists in King of Prussia (Philadelphia). Totally lame sound in comparison and no tactile feedback... Just a totally bland experience. I didn't go see X-MEN2 or any other movie, nor will I until I get it on DVD, and hopefully soon HD-DVD. I'd get a D-VHS player just for kicks, but I'm a little strapped right now and the selections are still lean. Point being, I don't know what it would take to get me to go to a commercial theater... As I mentioned earlier, it would have to be something like an IMAX theater with 3-D motion and sensory feedback... and even then you can build something like that at home in a much more comfortable setting... GO TACTILE!!! GO HD-DVD!! GO D-VHS!!! GO 3-D MOTION (D-BOX) WHATEVER!! Keep the performance coming!!! Wooo hoooo!!!!

 

[Philip Verdieck]

Blu-Ray Recorder Review (Sony BDZ-S77)

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/blu-ray/index.html

 

[Paul McElligott]

So it is backwards compatible with DVD...

 

[Scott L]

Awesome!! Thanks for the link. I know it may sound funny but it's *only* $3800, I remember my father talking about a comparable price when VHS VCR's first were available. This technology is much superior, especially since it can record high-bitrate hi-def to an optical format.

I hope Sony won't fail on this one!

 

[ChrisA]

Warner sucks! Forget their self motivated desire to stick to royalty driven red laser DVD (just compress the crap out of it nonsense).

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Everyone remember this is their first "statement" HD-DVD (bluRay) recorder...naturally it's pricy.

The article mentioned Sony hopes to have BluRay players (recorders?) in our hands for closer to $500 very soon. That would make it a much more accessable format for all of us!

dave