HD dvd formats. Encoded on disc and output as?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Chris PC, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I am wondering if somebody could give me some perspective. Regular SD DVD's are encoded as 480i and we de-interlace them to 480p and if needed, scale them to our displays resolution.

    1) What is the raw format encoded on an HD-DVD vs a Blu-Ray disc? 1080i? 1080p? 720p? How many frames/fields/second?

    2) What are the outputs on HD-DVD players vs Blu-Ray players?

    3) Are we still dealing with de-interlacing of some kind somewhere?

    Can I buy an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player and output 720p to my projector and not worry that it has been poorly processed? What output outputting 1080p?

    thanx,

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    As for what resolution is on the disc itself, well that depends on the original source content. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are just storage dumps basically and it doesn't necessarily mean you'll always have high definition no matter what.

    Blu-Ray film content is stored at a raw 1920x1080p/24 with no cadence flags embeded. Video content can be 1280x720p/60 or 1920x1080i/30. There are other permutations, but that will likely be majority of HD content.

    HD-DVD is a bit trickier. From what I've read it looks like film based material is encoded as 1920x1080i/24 with cadence flags embedded so that the fields can be recombined into progressive frames given the right decoder (and the flags need to have zero encoding errors, unlike many DVD's that to this day have errors). Video is 1920x1080i/30 or 1280x720p/60.

    Current HD-DVD players output 1080i.

    Some Blu-Ray players will output 1080p as 1080i and then use a de-interlacer to blend the signal back to 1080p if you select that option (like the Samsung, and perhaps the Panasonic). Some will allow raw 1080p/24 and 1080i/30 to be output if that is how the disc was encoded.

    Current players seem to have very poor internal scalers and so many are recommending that you don't use 720p downconversion for 1080p and 1080i material.

    Dan
     
  3. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    Sounds like crap to me. Until they offer 720p and 1080p I am not interested in these formats. I have a 1280 x 720p and sd dvd's look very good when properly MPEG decoded [Panasonic [​IMG] ] and properly de-interlaced (SiI504 / ABT or Faroudja). Until HD DVD and/or Blu-Ray can do things properly at 720p and/or 1080p I will hold off. I may be upgrading to a 1080p projector for the improvement in contrast and was hoping to reap the benefits of 1080p sources too. Unfortunately it looks like good HD content playback will have to wait.

    Why the heck don't they at least offer proper 720p output? 720p on 720 and 1080 projectors would look really good.

    thanx for the info.... I think you can count me as saying NO :p
     
  4. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    [​IMG]
    Film transmitted as 1080i gives you EXACTLY the same image as when it is transmitted as 1080p.
    Just make sure there is no bad conversion between the input of the display and the screen itself.
    At the moment all TV sets accept 1080i flawlessly, and very few 1080p.


    Cees
     
  5. mfabien

    mfabien Stunt Coordinator

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    Chris PC,

    Cees is telling you that your TV will deal with the 1080 resolution and your 720p display will convert it without any difficulty.

    You must be looking at NBCHD, CBSHD, PBSHD and other channels which use 1080i. Sure, you can configure your STB to convert the 1080i into 720p and that is best, in order not to have a momentary black screen during your TV's resolution conversion. But an HD DVD movie has one resolution, which is 1080p, and your TV needs to gear itself to convert this once to 720p. What's the problem?

    BTW, upgrade 2.0 resolved the 720p resolution problem for many owners and they have posted about it in the AVS Forums.
     
  6. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    It's not such a rosey scenario: Not all TV's handle 1080i properly. Many "bob" and lose 50% of the vertical resolution, essentially making the signal 540p rather than 1080p. It has just been a fairly recent event that TV's are starting to handle 1080i properly and fully de-interlacing to 1080p before working with the signal. Investigate the TV's capabilities before purchasing.

    There is also the possibility that somewhere in the chain the interlaced signal is being filtered vertically to reduce artifacts. That loss of resolution can never be recovered, even if you happen to get perfect de-interlacing.
     
  7. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I have a 720p projector. I cannot properly de-interlace 1080i from the player without artifacts. Right now, my sd 480i dvd's are de-interlaced practically artifact free to 480p and scaled to 720p. No combing, no stair-stepping or jagged lines. Just smooth picture. If I have to rely on my projector to de-interace 1080i to 720p..I am almost positive that it will show artifacts. The only way around this is the iScan VP50 with precision de-interacing of 1080i. I have an iScan HD+ and I am not about to pay another $2K to get 1080i de-interlacing. Hopefully the HD+ will de-interlace 1080i at least somewhat better than my projector. Until players output proper 720p or 1080p (ie well de-interlaced, or just plain proper progressive signal)..then HD DVD and Blu-Ray sounds screwed up to me.
     
  8. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    So what is the deal? Will players ever output 1080p/24?
     
  9. Sanjay Gupta

    Sanjay Gupta Supporting Actor

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    The soon to be available Sony BDP-S1 Blu-Ray player will output 1080p/24 and so shall the PS3. I am not very sure, but i think the already available Panasonic DMP-BD10 (Blu-Ray) and/or the soon to be available Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 (Blu-Ray) player will also output 1080p/24.
     
  10. JediFonger

    JediFonger Producer

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    then shouldn't HD-DVD/BR encode films in 1080p/24?
     

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