Disney+ Hawkeye (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (1 Viewer)

[TonyD]

Guesses for bad guys ……
Mom plays some roll as a bad guy
Jack has something suspicious going on.
Echo is in charge of the Track suit mafia but she is working for The Kingpin.
Kingpin played by Donofrio will appear on this show.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I want whatever answer gives Hawkeye the best exasperated one liners

 

[TonyD]

And more banging his head on a window.

 

[Robert Crawford]

One other thing about Mom in regards to Dad.
He was “killed” during the 2012 siege on NY but we never saw what murdered I mean Killed him.

Mom was probably with him when he met his demise.

I'm thinking the same thing!

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Echo is in charge of the Track suit mafia but she is working for The Kingpin.

Given that they've announced a spinoff series centered around that character, I'm guessing that she'll make a face turn before the end of the six episodes.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The car chase through the streets onto the Manhattan Bridge, and then under the Manhattan Bridge was among the best action sequences in all of the MCU.

Echo's debut definitely clarified why she has such a beef with Ronin, given that he killed her father (played by the always excellent Zahn McClarnon). My one pet peeve with all of the ASL scenes was that they were framed so close to the actors that you could hardly ever actually see what was being signed. Most shows with Deaf characters are guilty of this, but this one was even worse than most. CODA is an example of a production that got it right in this area.

Given all of the foreshadowing surrounding "Uncle", I'm guessing he's a certain Wilson Fisk aka Kingpin? If so, do you think they'll get Vincent D'Onofrio back? Even though the Netflix shows aren't canon in the MCU, you don't mess with perfect casting -- like J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson.

 

[Joe Wong]

Enjoyed the car chase as well! Just a fun, thrilling action piece with some surprises.

 

[Joe Wong]

The car chase through the streets onto the Manhattan Bridge, and then under the Manhattan Bridge was among the best action sequences in all of the MCU.

Echo's debut definitely clarified why she has such a beef with Ronin, given that he killed her father (played by the always excellent Zahn McClarnon). My one pet peeve with all of the ASL scenes was that they were framed so close to the actors that you could hardly ever actually see what was being signed. Most shows with Deaf characters are guilty of this, but this one was even worse than most. CODA is an example of a production that got it right in this area.

Given all of the foreshadowing surrounding "Uncle", I'm guessing he's a certain Wilson Fisk aka Kingpin? If so, do you think they'll get Vincent D'Onofrio back? Even though the Netflix shows aren't canon in the MCU, you don't mess with perfect casting -- like J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson.

Here’s Vincent’s tweet 2 weeks ago…

 

[TonyD]

His hand patting Echo when she was a child sure sounded like Vincent.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

This show is incredible. And D’Onofrio was unmistakable in that super short moment, the car chase was a joy,

 

[Jake Lipson]

Even though the Netflix shows aren't canon in the MCU, you don't mess with perfect casting -- like J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson.

Speaking as a viewer who did not watch any of the Marvel Netflix shows, this is interesting to me. Going back to your Spider-Man example, it was made very clear in Far From Home that the J. Jonah Jameson from the MCU is not the same character as in the Sam Raimi trilogy. They were not making that trilogy canon.

But now we have No Way Home which features villains from Sony's previous Spider-Man iterations. In doing so, they are essentially making those universes adjacent to the MCU, which is the exact opposite approach that they took with Jameson in Far From Home.

So, let's say for the sake of discussion that it is Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin. How much of what was done with that character in Daredevil will be carried over in terms of how they approach his characterization? They want to make sure that what he does in this show is PG-13 because the MCU has been marketed as family-friendly-ish. But using the same actor would also seem to be designed to please the fans of the prior show. One of the things I heard repeatedly about the Netflix shows is how much more adult-oriented they were than what Marvel Studios was putting out in theaters at the time. Will it be a balancing act to use the same actor in the role in a way that pleases fans of Daredevil without being able to go as far as his last appearance did?

Anyway, I liked this episode overall but it seems like it was a bridge episode between the beginning of the series and what is coming next. That wouldn't normally be a problem, but because the season is six hours total, we are already halfway through this story and it doesn't quite feel that way. Vincent D'Onofrio (or whomever) isn't the only impending arrival the show needs to work in. The post-credits scene from Black Widow was basically an advertisement for this show and hasn't been dealt with yet.

They're going to have to cram a lot into the second half of the season.

 

[Robert Crawford]

This show is incredible. And D’Onofrio was unmistakable in that super short moment, the car chase was a joy,

Yup, I'm really enjoying this show.

 

[Joe Wong]

Speaking as a viewer who did not watch any of the Marvel Netflix shows, this is interesting to me. Going back to your Spider-Man example, it was made very clear in Far From Home that the J. Jonah Jameson from the MCU is not the same character as in the Sam Raimi trilogy. They were not making that trilogy canon.

But now we have No Way Home which features villains from Sony's previous Spider-Man iterations. In doing so, they are essentially making those universes adjacent to the MCU, which is the exact opposite approach that they took with Jameson in Far From Home.

So, let's say for the sake of discussion that it is Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin. How much of what was done with that character in Daredevil will be carried over in terms of how they approach his characterization? They want to make sure that what he does in this show is PG-13 because the MCU has been marketed as family-friendly-ish. But using the same actor would also seem to be designed to please the fans of the prior show. One of the things I heard repeatedly about the Netflix shows is how much more adult-oriented they were than what Marvel Studios was putting out in theaters at the time. Will it be a balancing act to use the same actor in the role in a way that pleases fans of Daredevil without being able to go as far as his last appearance did?

Anyway, I liked this episode overall but it seems like it was a bridge episode between the beginning of the series and what is coming next. That wouldn't normally be a problem, but because the season is six hours total, we are already halfway through this story and it doesn't quite feel that way. Vincent D'Onofrio (or whomever) isn't the only impending arrival the show needs to work in. The post-credits scene from Black Widow was basically an advertisement for this show and hasn't been dealt with yet.

They're going to have to cram a lot into the second half of the season.

Yeah, a TV series allows more breathing room for the plot, and yet, like you said, there's a lot to cover in the remaining 3 episodes!

Yet to be revealed (my expectations only):

Echo's (Maya) "uncle" (ie. Kingpin)
Armand's killer
Echo's change of allegiance
Kate's mum's role / dad's history
Black Widow link

 

[Sam Favate]

This show is incredible. And D’Onofrio was unmistakable in that super short moment, the car chase was a joy,

Exactly what I was going to say. Wonderful show. Hitting all the right notes.

So, let's say for the sake of discussion that it is Vincent D'Onofrio as Kingpin. How much of what was done with that character in Daredevil will be carried over in terms of how they approach his characterization? They want to make sure that what he does in this show is PG-13 because the MCU has been marketed as family-friendly-ish. But using the same actor would also seem to be designed to please the fans of the prior show. One of the things I heard repeatedly about the Netflix shows is how much more adult-oriented they were than what Marvel Studios was putting out in theaters at the time. Will it be a balancing act to use the same actor in the role in a way that pleases fans of Daredevil without being able to go as far as his last appearance did?

As someone who watched - and loved - the Netflix shows, I don't think it will be that hard to incorporate as much as they wanted to from those shows, and I think most of it can be done easily without sacrificing a lot.

Here's the thing about the Netflix shows: They're not much different from the MCU (with one exception, which I'll get to). They are, essentially, PG-13 shows. The big difference is in TONE. The Netflix shows are much more serious, and have far fewer moments of levity than your typical MCU production. That's the biggest hurdle, and it's where they don't quite fit. D'Onofrio's Wilson Fisk is a fascinating character because he has been so tortured throughout his life. He faced some pretty grim circumstances and those are what made him who he is.

And for the record, those shows do make references to the MCU. Jessica Jones, for example, encounters people who are resentful of "the big green guy" and "the god" who tore up New York.

(The BIG exception to the above is The Punisher, which I hear they want to bring back as well, with Jon Bernthal in the role. They should. He was perfect. But The Punisher is a hard R-rated show. It is more violent than just about anything I have seen on television or in movies, and far more violent than anything that has been in the MCU. Bernthal's Punisher isn't the kind of guy we see in the MCU. But it was well done. I was never a fan of the character. I disliked that kind of anti-hero. But Marvel TV and Bernthal made it work in such a way that I loved the show. But yeah, this one is not for the kids.)

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

And for the record, those shows do make references to the MCU. Jessica Jones, for example, encounters people who are resentful of "the big green guy" and "the god" who tore up New York.

Everything in the MCU, at least through the first Avengers movie, is canon in the Netflix Marvel series. But nothing in the Netflix Marvel series is canon in the MCU.

 

[Sam Favate]

Everything in the MCU, at least through the first Avengers movie, is canon in the Netflix Marvel series. But nothing in the Netflix Marvel series is canon in the MCU.

I don't think that matters. If Jessica and the others hear/see references to the MCU movies, they would have to exist concurrently. Canon is a matter of opinion, if you ask me. For me, they inhabit the same universe.

 

[TonyD]

I’m doing a rewatch day Finish of the NF Marvel shows. I never finished them the first time they aired.
Halfway through DD now, early in season three they made reference to a city wide disaster a few years ago, not those exact words.

I think Adam summed it up perfectly.

The MCU can easily bring any of those characters and actors into it without any issues.
What issues would there be anyway.

 

[Citizen87645]

One of the benefits of these threads is finding out things you missed. I totally missed the Kingpin reference because of the way I was watching the show, so I'll have to rewatch that part now. Were there any other indicators of Kingpin besides the "uncle" moment?

 

[Sam Favate]

One of the benefits of these threads is finding out things you missed. I totally missed the Kingpin reference because of the way I was watching the show, so I'll have to rewatch that part now. Were there any other indicators of Kingpin besides the "uncle" moment?

There were two ways to get that reference: One was to know D’Onofrio’s size, stature and voice and to see the bits on social media (that’s how I got it), while the other was to know Echo’s backstory and her relationship to the Kingpin from the comics. I believe there are also Kingpin references from the Hawkeye books on which this is based, but I’d have to double check to be sure. There’s also a suggestion that he’s the one who bought the former Stark Tower, which would make it the MCU’s Fisk Tower.

 

[NeilO]

I looked up the actress for Maya Lopez/Echo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaqua_Cox and am impressed by the casting.