Disney+ Hawkeye (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (2 Viewers)

[TonyD]

Looks like Agents of Shield will never get in bedded back into the MCU

 

[Sam Favate]

I don’t see the big deal: in the MCU,

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Mockingbird is named Laura; Bobbie Chase is just another agent.

I see nothing here that keeps Agents of Shield from being canon.

Loved the finale. This is my favorite Marvel series so far. I just love the tone, as well as the sharp writing. Every episode was just a joy. Hailee Steinfeld was the show’s MVP. If I recall, Marvel waited for her to be available to do this; they obviously know what they’re doing. I hope she has a long future with them, and I hope to see a season 2 of Hawkeye. That this was billed as the “season finale “ gives me hope.

Also enjoyed Florence Pugh, especially her scene with Clint. The repercussions from Endgame continue. Jeremy Renner finally got his chance to shine, after 10 years in the MCU. He was great throughout the series.

Loved Vincent D’Onofrio, one of my favorite actors in any Marvel project. When he was speaking in the beginning, that’s real menace, as said above, and when he

Spoiler

was throwing Kate around,

it reminded me of old Spider-Man comics where the Kingpin would just toss him around like a rag doll. Also, no way

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he’s dead.

My only regret is that Lucky wasn’t in on the action.

Oh, I’ve been to Rockefeller Center on Christmas Eve. You can’t cross the street without encountering a half dozen police. How they

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knocked down the tree, emptied a building and had a massive fight with dozens of criminal thugs [\spoiler]without so much as a beat cop intervening went beyond strained credibility.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yeah, I agree with you about that last spoiler.

 

[Greg.K]

The complete lack of police at Rockefeller Center for an extended period (not to mention no throngs of onlookers videoing the whole thing) was ridiculous to anyone who’s ever actually been to Manhattan.

Kate & Yelena’s banter also a bit silly considering Yelena’s goal.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Looks like Agents of Shield will never get in bedded back into the MCU

The events of Infinity War never happened in the "Agents of SHIELD" universe, so it already was a distinctly different timeline -- or many timelines, depending on how you interpret the time travel shenanigans of the later seasons.

But now that the multiverse is canon, the "Agents of SHIELD" universe is just one among many out there. If they wanted to have those characters make another appearance, the Doctor Strange sequel would be the perfect place for it.

In the main MCU continuity, it's pretty clear at this point that Coulson died during The Avengers and stayed dead.

Hailee Steinfeld was the show’s MVP. If I recall, Marvel waited for her to be available to do this; they obviously know what they’re doing.

As soon as her name started floating for the role in the trades, I was rooting for that casting. And I was bummed when it looked like her prior obligations to "Dickinson" and other projects were going to prevent it from happening. She really was terrific the whole way through.

I really like Clint and Kate together, too. It's both a odd couple buddy cop dynamic and a sort of father-daughter relationship. Kate's sincerity and idealism made for a fun contrast with Clint's world-weary cynicism. At the same time, she brought out the best in him by reminding him why he got in this game in the first place.

Also enjoyed Florence Pugh, especially her scene with Clint.

Scarlett Johansson as Natasha was iconic, so this is no slight against her, but Yelena is more fun as a character than Natasha was. The writing on both Black Widow and this show zeroed in on the character right away, and Pugh's performance hits all of the beats perfectly.

Loved Vincent D’Onofrio, one of my favorite actors in any Marvel project. When he was speaking in the beginning, that’s real menace, as said above, and when he

Spoiler

was throwing Kate around,

it reminded me of old Spider-Man comics where the Kingpin would just toss him around like a rag doll. Also, no way

Spoiler

he’s dead.

He is terrific in that role. However, I felt he was utilized a lot better in "Daredevil" than he was here. Part of that is that his presence was kept a secret until the second to last episode, where as he was the main antagonist pretty much right out of the gate in "Daredevil".

Oh, I’ve been to Rockefeller Center on Christmas Eve. You can’t cross the street without encountering a half dozen police. How they

Spoiler

knocked down the tree, emptied a building and had a massive fight with dozens of criminal thugs [\spoiler]without so much as a beat cop intervening went beyond strained credibility.

The one way I justify this in my head is that this isn't our Manhattan, it's the MCU's Manhattan. The MCU's Manhattan is identical to ours in many respects, but there are also important differences -- starting with the fact that Avengers Tower looms over Grand Central instead of the Pan Am building.

This is a city that has, at minimum, Spider-Man and Daredevil patrolling the streets. It's also, perhaps, a city that never experienced the trauma of 9/11 -- though the Afghanistan scenes in the first Iron Man would seem to imply that 9/11 did happen in the MCU too. So perhaps the NYPD doesn't feel the need to have as heavy of a street presence as it does in our superhero-free world.

 

[Sean Bryan]

There were two gun shots during that sequence, both off camera.

If you play that scene back, watch for the muzzle flash that you can see on the sides of the building. One clear, bright flash with the gunshot. Nothing with the second sound.

Not sure what that sound was, a thud from him falling? Maybe an echo? But I don’t think it was a second gunshot.

 

[Sean Bryan]

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I don't believe that they would bring back that character for essentially one episode and then kill him off. There is too much storytelling opportunity to be had with him. But they obviously left it as vague as possible in order to keep their options open for where and when to use him next.

Agreed. That would be nutz

 

[Sean Bryan]

I heard one shot and a giant thud.

Yeah, there was only one flash of light (muzzle flash) as well.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I don’t think any of us think they were fatal.

They did a pretty good job of showing that he is stronger than normal and more resistant to damage than a normal person. So that makes it even easier to see him surviving being shot.

I loved this portrayal of the character so much, it would an absolute crime to not make him a long-term fixture in the future of street level MCU.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Looks like Agents of Shield will never get in bedded back into the MCU

It really doesn’t work as part of the prime MCU for a multitude of reasons, but like the Netflix shows it fits easily into a relatively close branch of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I loved this portrayal of the character so much, it would an absolute crime to not make him a long-term fixture in the future of street level MCU.

If nothing else, I want to see D'Onofrio's Kingpin face off against Holland's Spider-Man at some point.

 

[Sean Bryan]

If nothing else, I want to see D'Onofrio's Kingpin face off against Holland's Spider-Man at some point.

Absolutely!

That’s one of the things I’m hoping is part of the foundation of the next Holland Spider-Man trilogy. A lot more street level challenges with Fisk being at the center. Great opportunity to weave in stories with Black Cat and Daredevil who would be in Fisk’s orbit for various reasons.

 

[Sam Favate]

Good news.

Hawkeye & Daredevil's Kingpin Are The Same, Confirms Vincent D'Onofrio

Both series are set in the MCU.

screenrant.com

 

[Jake Lipson]

The Hawkeye Assembled special about the making of the series will be released on January 19. These usually follow the finale by a week, so I was wondering where it was. Personally, I'm actually looking forward more to this than I am to seeing Eternals again.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I've been thinking more about Yelena's storyline and some things don't add up.

Hawkeye indicates that Kate's mom, ordered the hit on Clint. But in Black Widow, we see Valentina (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) giving her the mission. So what happened there? Did Eleanor call Valentina pay her to send out an assassin? Why would she have to call Valentina instead of having someone in Kingpin's organization take care of it? She has worked for him a long time and I'm sure he has ordered hits on people before. If Eleanor did use Valentina, what is going to happen to Yelena when Valentina finds out that she didn't kill Clint as ordered?

I'm not really sure when the Black Widow credits tag takes place in relation to the events in Hawkeye. I almost think it had to be during the events of the show, because why would Eleanor order a hit on Clint before he came into Kate's life? There is no motivation whatsoever that I can see for her to hire a hit on a stranger who (up until the events of the show) never interacted with her or her family at all. I'm guessing she just wanted Clint gone so that Kate would stop working with him, although that's really not smart because he was trying to protect Kate.

The other thing that I don't understand is how and when Yelena ended up working for Valentina. At the end of her movie, Natasha sets Yelena on the path of finding all the other Black Widows under Dreykov's control and giving them the antidote. We see in this show that Yelena is still doing that two years later during the events of Infinity War when she is snapped out of existence in her friend's bathroom. Then she comes back five years later. There is no explanation, yet, of her connection to Valentina.

I really don't like the Black Widow tag scene because it doesn't have anything to do with the movie that preceded it and just feels like an advertisement for Hawkeye more than anything else. But because they put it there, I think that Marvel does eventually need to connect some dots with regard to Yelena and how she came to be working for Valentina. I half expected Julia Louis-Dreyfus to show up in Hawkeye as well for this reason but she wasn't.

I hope there is some clarity on this issue whenever Yelena and/or Valentina turns up next. It seems like a weird dangling thread.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Hawkeye indicates that Kate's mom, ordered the hit on Clint. But in Black Widow, we see Valentina (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) giving her the mission. So what happened there? Did Eleanor call Valentina pay her to send out an assassin? Why would she have to call Valentina instead of having someone in Kingpin's organization take care of it? She has worked for him a long time and I'm sure he has ordered hits on people before. If Eleanor did use Valentina, what is going to happen to Yelena when Valentina finds out that she didn't kill Clint as ordered?

It seems pretty clear that Kate's mom hired Valentina's organization to kill Clint. It could be that Kate's mom didn't want to be further in Kingpin's debt. It's also possible that Kate's mom realized you need a specialized assassin to take out an Avenger, and that Kingpin's goons weren't going to cut it.

I'm not really sure when the Black Widow credits tag takes place in relation to the events in Hawkeye. I almost think it had to be during the events of the show, because why would Eleanor order a hit on Clint before he came into Kate's life?

During the events of the season is the only thing that makes sense. It's not like she would have gotten the assignment and then taken months to act on it. The only question there is why the trees in Ohio still have their leaves and flowers are still blooming in December.

The other thing that I don't understand is how and when Yelena ended up working for Valentina.

I'm guessing that her friend -- whose bathroom she was dusted in and then reincorporated in -- put her in touch with Valentina. You don't afford a house like that without a wealthy benefactor.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Again, filmmakers whether TV or movies don't believe every plot point has to add up. Their main focus is entertaining people and not making sure every plot point makes sense or not. They know full well that most people don't think too hard about such specifics and thus, masters like Hitchcock and even those that aren't filmmaking masters focused their attention on entertaining their audiences.

In short, I think some of us think too much about plot points. Obviously, the filmmakers don't do that.

 

[David Weicker]

I've been thinking more about Yelena's storyline and some things don't add up.

Hawkeye indicates that Kate's mom, ordered the hit on Clint. But in Black Widow, we see Valentina (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) giving her the mission. So what happened there? Did Eleanor call Valentina pay her to send out an assassin? Why would she have to call Valentina instead of having someone in Kingpin's organization take care of it? She has worked for him a long time and I'm sure he has ordered hits on people before. If Eleanor did use Valentina, what is going to happen to Yelena when Valentina finds out that she didn't kill Clint as ordered?

I'm not really sure when the Black Widow credits tag takes place in relation to the events in Hawkeye. I almost think it had to be during the events of the show, because why would Eleanor order a hit on Clint before he came into Kate's life? There is no motivation whatsoever that I can see for her to hire a hit on a stranger who (up until the events of the show) never interacted with her or her family at all. I'm guessing she just wanted Clint gone so that Kate would stop working with him, although that's really not smart because he was trying to protect Kate.

The other thing that I don't understand is how and when Yelena ended up working for Valentina. At the end of her movie, Natasha sets Yelena on the path of finding all the other Black Widows under Dreykov's control and giving them the antidote. We see in this show that Yelena is still doing that two years later during the events of Infinity War when she is snapped out of existence in her friend's bathroom. Then she comes back five years later. There is no explanation, yet, of her connection to Valentina.

I really don't like the Black Widow tag scene because it doesn't have anything to do with the movie that preceded it and just feels like an advertisement for Hawkeye more than anything else. But because they put it there, I think that Marvel does eventually need to connect some dots with regard to Yelena and how she came to be working for Valentina. I half expected Julia Louis-Dreyfus to show up in Hawkeye as well for this reason but she wasn't.

I hope there is some clarity on this issue whenever Yelena and/or Valentina turns up next. It seems like a weird dangling thread.

I found some of your points exceedingly clear.


When did Valentina meet Yelena sometime after Endgame, after she stopped finding the Black Widows. It happened at Natasha's grave, so that should be easy to reconcile. She hadn't met Valentina yet when she was dusted.

How does Valentina/Eleanor work. For all we know, Valentina also works for Kingpin, so Kingpin wants Hawkeye dead, he asks Eleanor to do this, she hires Valentina to make first contact, later contacts are with Eleanor directly.

As for timing, with Clint's farm a supposed hidden spot, Yelena maybe couldn't act until he came out in the open.

 

[Sam Favate]

Wasn't the speculation that

Spoiler

Valentina was putting together the Thunderbolts, a sort of anti-hero team? And doesn't the Kingpin have something to do with the Thunderbolts? That would explain the connection, and if Eleanor's security firm was also working for the Kingpin, it'd be easy enough to connect the dots.

Now, to be fair, I haven't read the source material on this, so I don't know the specifics.

 

[Jake Lipson]

It happened at Natasha's grave, so that should be easy to reconcile.

Yelena knew Valentina before the gravesite scene.



"You're not supposed to be bothering me on my holiday time, Valentina" and "I want a raise" indicate that Yelena has been working for Valentina for some time.