Having trouble re-installing XP

Discussion in 'Computers' started by Jon_Are, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. Jon_Are

    Jon_Are Cinematographer

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    I've re-formatted and re-installed XP before - and it's time again - but suddenly I'm unable to do so.

    My XP disk is an upgrade. Everything flies fine, until it asks me to insert a Windows98 disk to verify that my upgrade is legit.

    Well, I don't have a Windows98 disk. All I have is an HP System Recovery disk that came with the computer; I'm almost certain that is what I used during my previous XP re-install. Needless to say, it's not working for me this time.

    I see ebay auctions for "Boot Setup CD For Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP" - is this all I need? Will my system see this disk as a legitimate Windows application and allow me to install the XP upgrade?

    Or, do I need to buy a full 98 OS disk?

    Thanks!

    Jon
     
  2. Paul Padilla

    Paul Padilla Supporting Actor

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    Hey Jon,

    System restore disks can be a pain in the ass and this is one of the reasons.

    While there are certainly some more sly options out there, you have a couple of choices.

    No, you don't have to buy a '98 CD because you own '98 as part of the restore disk. That's the legal part.

    In order to get an upgrade disk to install you have to be able to show it a standard '98 or '98SE CD of some kind. I seem to remember that '95 won't work, but it's been a while...I could be wrong on that one. Ask friends to see if they have one you can borrow. There's absolutely nothing illegal about it. All XP needs is to see the physical media (or at least the content thereof) and it in no way ties to the Product ID code with the copy of '98. You won't be asked for any ID codes until you get to the point in the GUI setup of XP.

    In lieu of begging or borrowing a disk, you can do as minimal of an install as possible using the restore disk...then upgrade to XP from there.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Chris Bardon

    Chris Bardon Cinematographer

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    No idea what the stuff on ebay is, but I'd probably stay away from it if you want to keep legit. Now when you formatted before, did you format (or delete the partition) and then install XP, or boot to the CD, delete (or format) the partition, and then install? If you let the XP installer do the format, it probably explains why it worked before and not now.

    I didn't know that they made an "upgrade" version of XP though. Did you buy the machine with XP on it? If so, then HP (it sounds like you bought an HP/Compaq box) probably gave you the wrong XP disc. Legally, they're not allowed to sell "upgrade" installs with new systems, unless they provide the previous version as well. There has to be at least one "new" OS sold in the chain.

    There are other ways around this problem, but they definitely fall into some grey areas for HTF.
     
  4. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    I would use the HP restore CD to get it up and running with an OS on it, and then the XP upgrade CD should work (per Paul's good advice). There's no need to go buy a CD off Ebay in this situation.
     
  5. Jon_Are

    Jon_Are Cinematographer

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    Nope, the machine (HP) came with Windows 98 installed. At some point, I purchased and installed the XP upgrade.

    This bites, because I really need to clean up this drive.

    Thanks for all the help,

    Jon
     
  6. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    I think I have this down. If you upgraded your machine then you need to degrade it [​IMG] Go back to the way it was when it was new.

    The HP disk knows exactly what to look for - so it won't work in another machine - and your 2nd hard drive is confusing it.

    Ok, at least I think this will work.

    Glenn
     
  7. Chris Bardon

    Chris Bardon Cinematographer

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    And this is why I build my own computers from components. Glad that I've never had to deal with HP/Compaq/Dell crap on any of my computers.

    If the restore disc has win 98 on it though, then shouldn't you be able to use it to verify the upgrade? I can't remember, is there a specific file that the installer looks for (that you could browse to) for this, or does it just need the "CD" (meaning that it doesn't tell you what you need)? If it's something like the Win98 files being in a subdirectory that's unbrowseable, you could probably copy these to a new CD that has the directory structure the installer is looking for.
     
  8. Paul Padilla

    Paul Padilla Supporting Actor

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    XP upgrades are common, so no sweat there. Jon, you must have upgraded to XP with '98 already up and running.


    Nope. Upgrades in this situation will only recognize a standard Win98 or 98SE CD. Since Jon's machine came with '98 it sounds like a semi-older machine. The system restore disks for HP, Compaq, Packard Bell and a lot of older machines came with all of the setup files configured to dump essentially everything back onto the computer in one piece including all of the extra gadgets and programs most people don't use. Some of the older ones didn't even allow you to only reinstall Windows. You had no choice but to wipe out everything. Lots of people lost a lot of data that way. Most newer machines come with a seperate operating system CD. But I digress.

    **It's entirely possible that the second hard drive is interfering with the restore. These restore disks are the quintessential computer response...positive or negative. Either it's going on exactly the same computer model it was intended for, or it's going to bomb out. The second hard drive wasn't part of the routine when it was built so it can be throwing the restore routine off when it detects additional hardware. If your comfortable, remove that second drive for the restore process and the XP upgrade. Let the restore disk do it's thing. If the restore goes OK, go to Add/remove programs in the control panel and uninstall anything you don't need just to get rid of any possible incompatibilities with XP. Then, with '98 up and running, pop in the XP CD and upgrade from there.

    I'm ashamed of myself as an IT guy for not saying this before, but MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ALL OF YOUR DATA AND DOCUMENTS BACKED UP BEFORE YOU WIPE THINGS OUT. That may be moot at this point since you don't have a bootable computer...unless you have another machine to install one or both hard drives in on which to copy your files.

    Hope this helps.
     
  9. Jon_Are

    Jon_Are Cinematographer

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    I was away from this thread for a few days because of a glitch in my internet connection. Now that that's all squared away...



    How, exactly, is this done? By simply unplugging the cable in the second hard drive?

    Thanks for all the help,

    Jon
     
  10. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Yes, it is that easy.

    If you reboot and the computer freaks out, you might have to change a jumper, but I'm thinking that you won't have any problem.

    You don't even have to unplug both cables. Either the power cable or the drive cable will do.

    Glenn
     
  11. Jon_Are

    Jon_Are Cinematographer

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    Thanks, Glenn -

    I'll give it a go when I get a chance and post back.

    Jon
     
  12. Paul Padilla

    Paul Padilla Supporting Actor

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    Hey Jon...I've been out for a few days myself.

    That easy? Yes and no. There are some things that can affect the way the computer boots. And definitely unplug the power and the ribbon cable. Unplugging the ribbon cable alone might get you by but it's never worth taking a chance on damaging your hard drive. Unplugging the power cable alone is definitely a bad idea. There are any number of issues that can come up.
    1. If the motherboard isn't set to auto detect the hard drives it can hang during the POST (Power On Self Test)

    2. If the two drives were chained as master & slave, some hard drives require a different jumper setting for Master vs. Single drive only. Again, it can hang during POST.

    If you've already forged ahead with no problem, then excellent. If you're still working with it, every hard disk drive should have a diagram on the top or bottom of the casing for jumper settings. Even though incorrect jumper settings aren't likely to cause any damage, if you have anything on either of the drives that you can't afford to lose don't take any chances. Make every effort to examine what settings the drive calls for rather than using trial and error.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
     
  13. Jon_Are

    Jon_Are Cinematographer

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    You guys are great.

    Here's an update:

    First of all, this is not my primary PC that I'm working with - I use it mostly just to access the internet. There is nothing at all by way of data that I'm concerned about losing.

    Anyway, I was able to borrow a copy of a full install XP Professional disk, so this should solve all my issues, I hope. I won't get a chance to play around with it for a few more days, though.

    I'm going to wipe both drives clean, then do a fresh install.

    With this in mind, do I still need to worry about disconnecting my secondary drive?

    If I format both drives, can I assume I likely won’t have any problems installing from my XP CD? That my system will detect the CD, even with both drives virtually erased?

    Thanks,

    Jon
     
  14. Jon_Are

    Jon_Are Cinematographer

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    And, while I'm here...


    I don't understand this logic, as it applies to my problems. My solution - to obtain a full install XP disk - is no different that what you would go through to build your own computer.

    I understand the advantages to building - to avoid all the additional garbage that is shoveled into the HP/Compaq/Dells - but, with regard to my circumstances, building my own would have saved me neither grief nor money.

    Jon
     
  15. Jon_Gregory

    Jon_Gregory Stunt Coordinator

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    Well that won't work if that copy of XP Pro has already been installed on another computer. Well it will work for 30 days max. XP binds its registration key to the hardware in your computer. This makes it impossible without a cracked version of XP (illegal as can be) to simply borrow a buddy's copy of XP and install it on your machine. Microsoft gives you a 30 day window if you don't want to connect to the Internet to confirm the copy of windows xp yet. And if you install a borrowed version of XP that has not been installed yet, it will make the product key worthless on another machine in the future. You can make minor changes to your hardware and re-install the operating system with XP, but not to another computer all together.
     
  16. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Your logic is illogical. The point is that with your machine, you have a personalized version of XP. If you build your own computer you have to use the regular retail ones.

    Your HP version is looking for one hard drive. If it sees 2, then it thinks that it is in a different machine, and quits any setup.

    I don't know how your cables are run, but your "C" drive should be the primary master, and your CD/DVD drive either the secondary master or the primary slave. With a 3rd device attached, it shows an error. This is why I said to disconnect your new hard drive. It would have to be either the primary slave or either of the secondaries, so pulling the plug would get your HP disk into thinking that everything was ok.

    However, Jon-Gregory has an even more important point. Every XP system is coded, and Microsoft must get the code within 30 days, or it will crash! If Microsoft gets the same code from 2 different machines, they will assume that an illegal copy was made, and now you are subject to violating their copyright laws. If you go on line, you might find yourself in deep doo-doo.

    I'm sorry for being so harsh, but we sort of have to follow their rules here.

    Glenn
     
  17. Paul Padilla

    Paul Padilla Supporting Actor

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    Glen...you're missing some points here. Jon's machine came with '98. It was then upgraded with a standard, retail version of XP. Nothing unusual there. XP in this case is not customized for his machine.

    So Jon, legalities and product ID codes not withstanding, you're correct that a regular full (as opposed to an upgrade) copy of XP should install just fine regardless of the configuration of your hard drives. However, there is always the possibility that there is some customized hardware in your machine for which XP won't have built in drivers. These are always available for download from HP's website. Here at my office we use exclusively Dell's. When we purchase new machines, the first thing I do is wipe them and install XP from scratch. With these Dells, and most newer brand name computers, you are provided with a seperate operating system disk which makes this possible without adding in all of the unnecessary bells and whistles that come from the factory. It is customized, however, to the extent that it will only install on a Dell, but it doesn't care what Dell machine it's going on. At home, I build my machines...mostly to take advantage of specific hardware...video cards, etc.

    Now...legalities and product ID codes withstanding...Jon_G and Glen are right. Upgrade vs. full versions are keyed with different ID codes. Your borrowed full version will not install using the ID code from your upgrade version, and installing using the borrowed ID code is in violation of copyright law and it will not complete activation. After 30 days it won't crash, but it will go into an extremely limited mode in which you can do very little beyond booting the machine.

    You were on the right track technically, Jon, but you will still run into problems. Now, I've never tried this, but it's possible that if you try to install using the upgrade, that when it asks for a previous version it may accept that full copy CD to let you continue the install. As long as you can get it to install using the upgrade product ID code, you're golden. You do own a qualifying version in the '98 that came with your system, you're just having to jump through some hoops to get it to install. It's too bad you don't have any friends with a standard copy of '98...that would be the easiest solution while still staying clean.
     
  18. Paul Padilla

    Paul Padilla Supporting Actor

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    One more thing.

    Since your XP upgrade has already been installed once and has been up and running, it must have already been activated. Since you're doing a clean install XP will consider this it's first incarnation, but when it tries to connect to the Msft clearing house to activate it will likely fail. Be prepared to have to call in for a new activation code once you get it up and running. It isn't tough and it's all automated. Msft does understand that crashes happen and their OS will have to be reinstalled from time to time.
     
  19. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Oops - forgot about the 98/XP issue, but I think he knew that.

    As for the reactivation, I'm not sure what will kick it. I upgraded my home set with a new motherboard/CPU, and I didn't have any problems getting mine activated. Come to think of it, I swapped my primary and secondary drives too, and put in a new video card. Maybe they realized how stupid the whole thing is, shut it down and didn't bother to tell anyone!

    Glenn
     
  20. Jon_Are

    Jon_Are Cinematographer

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    I should have made myself more clear:

    I own a legit copy of XP upgrade, complete with product ID code. This is currently installed on this PC. My plan is to install my borrowed full install XP, using the ID code from my previously-installed upgrade disk.

    Any issues?


    EDIT: Whoops, I didn't read Paul's post thoroughly. I will try doing as he suggests.

    Jon
     

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