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having trouble getting through a few classics (1 Viewer)

Jeff Gatie

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You don't even need to have someone else in the room. Watch it with Ebert's commentary (works for CK also). The person who does not learn something about appreciation of either film (or film art in general) from the Ebert commentaries is just stubborn or contrarian and should give up on this hobby; it is just not for them.
 

Carlo_M

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I have to admit I have to get around to watching my DVD of Casablanca. I too, despite just turning 30, have no problems with classic films. For some reason, this one has just sat on the shelf unviewed. But reading this thread has piqued my interest again (and to re-read Shakespeare, too, given that brief interlude we had regarding Old/Middle/Modern English).

Now that I know my Casablanca DVD has the Ebert commentary, I might have to watch it twice in a row! I don't always agree with his opinions, but the man knows movies, and he makes a compelling commentary track.
 

Christ Reynolds

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being a twentysomething, i can say that of all my twentysomething friends have no interest in films made pre-godfather, which isnt too encouraging.

i find it difficult to stay awake during most classics, but i think it is because i'm used to the faster pacing of more recent films. some of my favorite films are "those old black and white ones", but when i am a little bit tired, i doze right off when watching them. it took me about 7 viewings to get through 8½, but after i got through, i loved it. same with 2001 and dr strangelove, now two of my very favorite films. i needed about 10 tries to get through citizen kane, but the payoff was well worth it. to call a film the best of all time seems silly to me, but i know it is one of the best i have seen to date.

CJ
 

Terry St

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I think you'd be surprised at how things are changing. Thanks to cable, home video and DVD in particular, the teenagers and twenty-somethings have had a lot more access to classic film than previous generations. Frankly, some of us like it. :D I foist pre-Godfather classics onto my twenty-something friends all the time and they love 'em for the most part. We recently walked out of the new "Manchurian Candidate" film and my friends were commenting on how much better the original was. I was so proud of them! My interest in silent films does seem to be aberrant unfortunately. I haven't met anyone else who loves them the way I do.
 

Michael Elliott

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I'm only 24 but I certainly agree with this. For some reason people my age enjoy bashing older films even though they've never seen them. In fact, I'd say everyone I know my age won't watch a film older than 1990. I used to get upset about this but now I really don't care because it's their lose. If someone wants to limit themselves to one flavor of ice cream or one type of movie then I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I think the "cool" factor leads to a lot of things. It's not "cool" to bash something like TITANIC, SCREAM or THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT. This always shocked me considering how much money they made. It's also "cool" to be a "rebel" and bash classic films like CASABLANCA, CITIZEN KANE and various others. It's also "cool" to like Britney Spears so again, a reason I really don't get too upset.

I think the biggest problem is that some people my age don't want to use their minds. They are used to the MTV style filmmaking so watching something like KANE would be out of the question. They are also so used to the gore in FREDDY VS JASON that it's no wonder FRANKENSTEIN or THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA don't hold their attention. I also think a problem is that they simply don't watch the films. They don't even give them a chance. I've "recommended" several movies to friends and they were excited about them only until I told them what year they were made.

As someone else said, you shouldn't be watching SUNRISE or THE BIRTH OF A NATION and thinking these are supposed to be films made in 2004. When I watch FREDDY VS JASON I can also watch NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD and understand that is a horror film from 1968. I can watch FRANKENSTEIN and know that it's 1931 and not 2004.

What really gets me is people that complain movies of today are so horrid yet they continue to rush out and watch each popcorn movie released each year. They claim movies of today are so bad yet they refuse to watch anything older. With few exceptions, anything released today have been made already so why some won't watch the original is beyond me. Someone once asked Ebert what to do because he didn't find recent comedies very good. Ebert told the guy to go back and start with Chaplin/Keaton, work his way through the screwball comedies of the 1930's, move to Abbott and Costello, The Marx Brothers, Martin and Lewis and so on. People could do this with any genre.

I'm a film fanatic but I don't think there's anything wrong in someone saying KANE or GONE WITH THE WIND are bad movies. We've all got a right to our opinions and not every movie is going to be loved by all. People have the right to voice their negative opinions on a "classic" film as long as they have at least seen it. The only time I'd question a "film fan" is when they attack films they've never seen.

I usually get called a film snob for this but... I enjoy listening to everyone's opinions when it comes to films but whenever someone tells me that STAR WARS is the greatest science fiction film, I often follow that up asking if they've seen THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL or 2001. If they say SCARFACE is the greatest gangster film, I usually follow that up asking if they've seen ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES or THE PUBLIC ENEMY. If they call WAYNE'S WORLD the greatest comedy, I ask their opinions of Chaplin or Keaton. If CHICAGO is the greatest musical, I often ask their opinions on YANKEE DOODLE or SINGIN IN THE RAIN. If LORD OF THE RINGS is the greatest epic, I often ask them about BIRTH OF A NATION, GWTW, BEN HUR or some others.

If they haven't seen the "others" then I usually don't take their opinion as serious as I would had they seen the other films. I'm not sure if this is bad of me but I can't help it.
 

DaveButcher

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Again, I'll just point out that I love Metal, cars and Kane. To quote...someone, they are not opposing values.
 

ScottR

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I have trouble getting through On the Waterfront, From Here to Eternity, and Treasure of the Sierra Madre. I still can't believe Waterfront made the top ten on the AFI list.
 

Angelo.M

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I wrote about this a few weeks ago in the Music area, and no one cared. :frowning: It's tangential here, although relevant.

There's a book that's been out for a short while called "Kill Your Idols." Each chapter is written by a young (20's, Gen-Y, you know what I mean, and no offense meant) music writer or critic, and each chapter slaughters a sacred cow in the canon of "classic music." All the "classic" giants--Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys, Dylan, Doors, Who, Neil Young, MC5, Sex Pistols--etc get their heads handed back to them on silver platters. Even some more recent folks--Wilco, Nirvana--get the treatment.

The little that I read of it while browsing wasn't particularly well written and had more of the feel of rant than real criticism. Of course, these folks are entitled to their opinions, but the whole project comes off as snarky and superior, for the sake of nothing else but cutting against the grain.

Oh well. One can only hope that the folks reading it will listen for themselves and form their own opinions. I seriously doubt it's going to hurt the sales of Exodus or Led Zeppelin IV any time soon.


Sounds like fun. For the time being, we should all watch it on our own and report back here.
 

Jeff Gatie

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I believe the underlying theme of this thread (and Jack's comments) is that these types of statements are meaningless without some sort of explanation or justification for this type of critique (and no, "they bore me" is not an explanation). Are there any specific reasons these films do not hold your attention? Are there any other films from this era (40's-50's) that do hold your attention? Is there a chance that the AFI list may reflect what the majority of experts feel is a fine film and your view may reflect a prejudice or a lack of film experience? C'mon, you sound like a smart individual. Can you add to this critique so we may further the conversation?

P.S. I'm not picking on you. I have personally given likes and dislikes of films and backed them up by specific points and Lord knows I have admitted to prejudices and lack of knowledge before.
 

Stephen_L

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So much of classic film, as well as classic culture like opera, theater, Shakespeare is not instantly accessible. It often requires a little effort on the viewer/listener to concentrate, educate themselves, maybe watch or listen to the work a few times. As a teenager I wanted some knowlege of classical music, so I asked a friend for some suggestions and played them over and over as I did chores. Some of my favorite works didn't impress me until I'd heard them several times, then suddenly I 'got' them. Older films and foreign films are often that way; they can seem stiff, or arch the first viewing but after watching them a bit, you begin to appreciate their style, dialogue, characters. Why should you work to enjoy a film? Well, sometimes the most complex opera, Shakespeare or classic film will provide the most complex, deeply satifying experience; the investment of effort provides terrific dividends.
 

Michael Elliott

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I think this can be very important too. There have been many "classics" that I hated when I first saw them. The two that jump to mind are TAXI DRIVER and IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE. I actually watched TD at least 7 times before I actually "got" what the film was about and today's it's one of my favorite films. It took around three viewings for me to fall in love with IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE.

It took 30+ years for people to fall in love with IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE so perhaps viewers shouldn't expect to like it the first time they see it. KANE was another film that took time to gather its reputation. In the horror genre, FRANKENSTEIN, BRIDE OF FRANK and THE INVISIBLE MAN weren't considered "great" when released. Of course, standing the test of time helps matter but there are several films that take multiple viewings for you to see what the big deal is.

Even when I was hating TAXI DRIVER I could still see something great was in the movie but I couldn't put my finger on what it was. I kept watching the film and it eventually caught on. Stanley Kubrick is my favorite director and outside of EYES WIDE SHUT I have hated each of his films on the first viewing. It took me a couple times with 2001, a couple with A CLOCKWORK ORANGE and at least seven times with THE SHINING. Today, I think they stand as some of the greatest films to study and enjoy.

I think studying the films is what seperates the film buff from the "passing two hours" crowd. I really don't blame anyone for saying they refuse to watch a film six times in order to enjoy it. I understand people want entertainment right then and there and don't want to have to study a film to see what greatness is really there. Even as a film buff, I usually watch the "bad but entertaining" films a lot more than something like CITIZEN KANE. I haven't seen KANE in three years and haven't seen GONE WITH THE WIND since the early 90's. However, I watch ATTACK OF THE GIANT LEECHES and PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE at least once a year. :)

Plus, I'm sure every film buff has "classics" they just don't like or just don't want to spend anymore time with. Earlier this year I watched Harold Lloyd's THE FRESHMAN and wasn't too impressed. The same thing happened with A NIGHT AT THE OPERA. I liked both but I couldn't list them on my classic list. I just rewatched FREAKS for the first time in at least a decade and while I hated the film the first time I saw it, this second viewing had me liking it a bit more. I plan on watching FREAKS a few more times in my life to see if I can put my finger on its greatness but this could go the other way and have me hating the film even more. I never enjoyed Lugosi's DRACULA but I've went back at least ten times trying to get the entertainment out of it. As of today, I really don't want to watch the film again because I really hate it. The repeat viewings haven't worked and I'm ready to throw it out the door. Even then, I plan to give it one more viewing this Halloween.
 

ScottR

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I actually like or love most of the films on AFI's list, and while I certainly can appreciate why the experts feel they are great, some are just not to my liking. In the case of "Waterfront" I just didn't care for any of the characters. Terry Malloy wasn't someone that I could root for, therefore I didn't really care what happened to him, and the film became a bore rather quickly. The same thing with Eternity....Clift's character was rather bland and dull, and since most of the action centered around him I was bored with it. Treasure of the Sierra Madre also moved too slowly for me.
The title of this thread is "having trouble getting through a few classics." I don't hate any of the films I cited, but yes, I do have trouble getting through them. I don't have to like every classic to be considered a film raconteur. I just have a problem getting through some of them because they don't interest me.
Should Waterfront have made the AFI list? Certainly. Should it have been in the top ten....in my opinion, no. It's A Wonderful Life should have switched places with it.
 

Bob Turnbull

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Well, I for one have loved this thread...Not only has it shown a great deal of diversity of opinion, but it's also had a number of people eloquently describe why they love some of these movies - Matthew's Vertigo comments and Jeff's come back to me about Magnificent Seven (good quotes from the film...I'll try to pop it back in the player again soon).

As well, those who initially made some general comments about "old" films or B&W films have indeed stated that they will attempt to watch some more and to keep an open mind. What more can you ask for at the HTF?

I know there are many of the younger folks who subscribe to the "old is bad" theory, but I think for this thread it's a bit of a straw man.
 

Dan Rudolph

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Here's how the Gen-Y mindset works: The masses are stupid. If you hate something the mindless sheep public likes, you prove that you are smarter than them.

I find this circular and nihlistic, but what do I know?
 

Michael Reuben

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I'm not sure if this is actually the phrase you intended, but I rather like it. :)

Raconteur: One who tells stories and anecdotes with skill and wit.

M.
 

Jeff Gatie

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Did you know that the Terry Malloy character was a surrogate for the director, Elia Kazan, and the film itself was an allegory for the battle Kazan went through when he "named names" in the House UnAmerican Activities investigations on communist infiltration of the movie business? That although the investigations led to the blacklisting of several Hollywood types (most of whom were devout communists), Kazan also suffered the same type of blacklisting? To this day, Kazan has had to suffer slings and arrows for doing what he personally thought was good for the country. At his lifetime Oscar ceremony, there were actors who were not even alive when the investigations occurred who refused to acknowledge him with applause, even though he was one of the greatest directors who ever lived. I'm not saying anyone has to love this movie, I loved it at 10 years old and knew nothing at the time about Kazan and his adventures. But given this background and the fact that the story is so personal, maybe you can see it in a new or different light, which is what we all strive for when asking why "the classics" are really classics.

BTW, I feel the AFI's ranking is a very brave one considering the status of Kazan in Hollywood and is a testament to the greatness of this film. Some films rise above their supposed "message", and although not as controversial as say "Birth of a Nation", "On the Waterfront"'s greatness similarly transcends any negatives behind it's makers or subject.
 

Jeff Gatie

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Let me explain my over the top devotion to "The Magnificent Seven". This was my father's favorite western, probably his favorite movie of all time. I come from a family of 7 children. From the day my little brother was born in 1970, we were referred to as "The Magnificent Seven" (I was number 5 in line, the James Coburn character). I watched this movie every time it was on TV from the time I could sit upright and now own it on DVD. Sadly, my dad passed away a few months before the release of the DVD, but I still watch it 2-3 times a year and every time I do, I can almost feel him sitting beside me and quoting the lines under his breath.

"We deal in lead, my friend."
"So, we are in the same business."
"Only as competitors."
 

Angelo.M

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Pretty much summarizes the book "Kill Your Idols" which I wrote about in post #128.

Snarky. I need a noun for that: snarcicism? snarkicism? snarkiness?

:D
 

Carlo_M

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You know, I dislike generalities for the most part, but having graduated college in 1996 and still working for the University since then (and making lots of friends and acquaintances of students over the past decade and a half) I can unfortunately vouch for this one. :frowning:
 

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