Have you reached the "point of diminishing returns?" (1 Viewer)

[DanaA]

I agree with Paul wholeheartedly. Even after I had put together my system, there was something lacking. As with the issue of this thread, I felt I hadn't reached my personal point of diminishing returns. I love music and have a LARGE collection of redbood CD's. My Harman Kardon was all right sonically, but I still felt somehow dissatisfied. With the help of Keith's suggestions, I went out auditioning, found a player I really liked, and haven't looked back. I have quite a few CD players/changers in my house and each has their own distinct sound. Now, the difference might not be as pronouced were I to pass them through my pre-pro's DAC's, but, using the analog feed, it is.

 

[RobertR]

Would you hookup an APEX DVD player to a Ronco projector?

Well, if the projector came with a Vegematic....

 

[DanaA]

Gosh dang, that's one of the funniest lines I've ever read. I'm just sitting hear at work laughing mao.

 

[Rich Wenzel]

paulBAW,

3 letters for you, DBT

No one has done a DBT on cd players and has statistically chosen one over the other.

Now I do believe its entirely possible that there are AUDIBLE sonic differences that DBT's don't capture, but not major ones.

If you do a DBT on $100 pair of speakers and then a $1000 pair of speakers, I'm sure, you would pass the DBT. I don't believe you, or anyone else, since no one has been able to do it, would on a cd player.

So if you have unlimited resources, buy the more expensive one. If you pass a DBT, and its within your resources, buy the more expensive one.

I should also say that 3 friends and I did a DBT on a technics (foregt model number), my Rotel 955 ($600 player), and Marantz 4000OSE ($500? player)...no one passed the DBT...

Since I have limited resources, I spend my money where I can hear the largest sound differences, and when it comes to equipment, thats speakers.

So I posit, if someone can't pass a DBT between a player that is 10x more expensive than another, then you have reached diminishing marginal returns at the point of the cheaper player.

And I couldn't care less about journalists, I read in magazine within the last 1-2 years a reviewer (supposed expert) that he heard an extra octave by changing cables...with these cables he could hear the last 12 keys of a piano but was not able to hear it with the other set...Anything he ever said has lost validity with me.

Rich

 

[Rich Wenzel]

Oh, as for the DVD player, it can easily be proven that there are differences in video quality, so I would spend more.

however, if I was using a runco, i would probably be using its scaler, and if that were the case, the dvd player would be just a transport and I wouldn't go all out on it...

Rich

 

[Kevin_R_H]

Oh no, not the dreaded DBT argument!!!

I've got to think fast!!! Oh, I've got it:

"Lord, forgive me my sins. And please don't allow me to be pulled down into the quagmire of a DBT discussion."

"Amen"

Kevin

 

[paulBAW]

Ok Rich, then my ears must have lied to me. Because I'll be frank with you, I heard the difference on the NAD cd player. And I think your a foul if you don't think their are differences in source components. And DVD players, can even have sonic differences. My ears are good, I wouldn't say the greatest ever. I wouldn't spend more money on interconnets. I'm happy with my Monster right now, I will buy AudioQuest eventually when funds allow it, not so much for the differnce in sound performance. Because I'm buying a Bryston and just put my order in for Veritas 2.1's and I'll be damned to use anything less on that setup. Interconnets are an excuse.

But to think for a second your first contact up source isn't important. In that case, why not sell your cd player, and buy an rca 5 disc. Take that extra cash and spend it on a speaker upgrade.

 

[Rich Wenzel]

Paul,

Yes I am a "foul"...However, on my next upgrade, a cd player is not in consideration....

However, if you have never tested your own equipment to see what really makes a difference, then maybe you are the fool...

I read all about the debates on cd player quality, so I went out and bought 2 "good" cd players, and tested them, also compared to a "cheap" cd player, no one could statistically tell the difference.

Have you found done that test with your equipment, with people to test you?

As I wrote, with emphasis, that I do believe it is possible for there to be audible sonic differences between cd players that DBT's don't capture, I don't believe there are large ones, that sparkle "day and night" type comments. But I can DBT speakers and statistically prove that I can hear a difference.

Rich

 

[John Royster]

And it had to come to this didn't it? It started off as a really good thread and then somebody had to come and take a big dump on it.

thanks a lot.

 

[paulBAW]

I was a little harsh with the "fool" comment. I am sorry. I'm not normally like this, and considering this is a great place to talk about a mutal interest it was in very poor taste. I still consider a good up source the key to any system. And I think alot of people spend more money on the last link instead of the source.

 

[MarkEB]

My 6 pak pioneer cd changer finally died about 5 months ago.

Couldn't decide if i wanted a mega or single player unit.Did my dealtime.com search from time to time then,
on 4-11-03 i clicked on pioneer toward the bottom of the list
Referb-Pioneer Elite PD F 27 301 chgr.$119.00.
Why not LOL!
It got here in 4 days not-double boxed. Box was "used"looking.unwraped it was clam-shell packed.No damage.A Beautiful piece of equipment.
cleaned all my cd's.Tested Hollies Bus Stop.

The Hi-Bit Legot Link 24 Bit D/A convertors did bring to life my system.
Why the Referb Badge?
It won't store the Artist/Title.I guees those chinese chip sets have a few bugs in em.

The PD-F 27 sits atop a Carver Hr-772 flowing thru a pair of Klipsch Chorus II's.

It never has sounded better!!

Mark

 

[JakeMcM]

I think I have reached the point of diminishing returns in my system. I'm very happy w/the system and couldn't upgrade if I wanted to. What I am talking about is how I've made several big purchases that really wowed me, front projector, new speakers, DIY subwoofer. I'm to the point now where I am doing the littler things, like cable organization, acoustical treatment, painting, bought a universal remote, tweaking etc--I am very happy with these things don't get me wrong, these elements can really make or break you but its just that all the big purchases are done. I guess thats why people tend to upgrade constantly. I know thats not exactly what you guys are talking about, but thought it was close enough.

 

[EdNichols]

Two questions, since I do not yet know the "code" , what is DBT and what is LOL?

 

[Kevin_R_H]

Ed,

"DBT" is an acronym for Double Blind Test. From my experience on audio forums, as soon as it shows up in any thread, the subject of the thread has a tendency to become forgotten. From that point forward, the thread deteriorates into a DBT thread (its merits, proper set-up, published tests, "my ears are better than your ears", "if you had better equipment, you would be able to hear the difference", ad nauseum).

"LOL" can mean 2 different things : "Laughing Out Loud" or "Lots of Love".

Kevin

 

[EdNichols]

Thanks, Kevin.
I have read some threads on the debate of DBT (now that I know what it is). I think the concept is a great idea if the one who conducts the test would supply more of the testing detail. Then the result isn't just isn't what one "expert" thinks especially since that person would more biased toward an expensive component vs a cheaper one just because it is "supposed" to sound better. I guess that is one of the reasons I started this thread. I wanted to see what some people thought was "enough" and the ones who felt that way didn't have mega buck systems. (Besides is gives me some ideas when the time comes for me to upgrade!!)

 

[David Lawson]

I have reached the point of diminishing credit limit, but I think my television (a 32" tube) is in drastic need of an upgrade before I can reach the point of diminishing returns. I'm content with everything else, for the moment.