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Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by tfryerje, Feb 22, 2011.
Quick help on this appreciated
Man, that's a loaded question. No way to answer without knowing a lot more about the speaker. Do you mean a single 6.5" driver (no other drivers in the cabinet)? What is the impedance (ohms)? Will you be using a subwoofer?
The model of the speaker will suffice if you do not know the specs.
You appear to have a number of threads going on the same system which you told us that you just purchased. Perhaps if you keep the discussion going on one thread you might get some better responses. What leads you to believe you HK is underpowered for it's intended purpose? Did you take the time to research the power requirements of the entire speaker system that you just purchased to find out if the HK is up to the job?
I as I stated before am a bit of a newb when it comes to these peice by peice sets I have always had in box sets and they take all the guess work out of the setup process. Now that I have this and my HK is on its way the question is will a 350w HK 7.1 system, power these 4 two way 6.5's 60w nominal 100w max and a 5 1/4 center with a ten inch sub (I bought them off of monoprice)? What I read from the reviews of the receiver is that it says 350w but, as per the reviews, with HK it tends to me more power than that compared to a system from say RCA or Pioneer of the same alleged wattage so I went with it.
When it comes to a system, wattage numbers are virtually meaningless. There are other specs that are much more important and meaningful.
In terms of "will the speakers work and be loud enough" this is a matter of making sure the speaker's impedance (measured in ohms) is matched with the impedance your receiver is designed to support (typically 8 ohms) -- this will ensure that the speakers will "work" -- and that the sensitivity of your speakers (measured in dB - typically in the mid 80s up to mid 90s and higher) is sufficient to produce high volume levels with less power.
If you have relatively efficient speakers (88dB and higher) then you don't NEED as much wattage because the speakers are able to produce high volume without as much power needs.
Have you tried setting this system up and seeing what the results are?
The H/K receiver you listed has moderate power and with decent speakers should be able to put out satisfying volume levels (provided your room isn't really large). If the performance is not satisfactory to you, check the speaker sensitivity first (hopefully it will be listed on the back of the speaker). If they are low sensitivity, then you can improve performance by getting better speakers (i.e. the speakers are the weaker link).
EzSet/EQ™ automated setup (microphone supplied)
Graphic on-screen display with HDMI, component, composite and S-video
Two-line dot-matrix front-panel display
Programmable 11-device main remote control
Source input renaming
A/V Sync Delay
RS-232 serial port for system upgrades
Switched accessory power outlet
Remote infrared (IR) input and output
Multiroom IR input
The AVR 247 is Simplay HD-verified for compatibility via the HDMI connection with other Simplay HD-verified products.
50 Watts x 7, seven channels driven at full power at 8 ohms, 20Hz – 20kHz,
I think Jason has answered you question. But I did notice that you went with two passive sub and your HK may have trouble with them. You also have to remember that your speaker selection is going to have a much greater impact on how your system will sound then changing out your receiver. If since you decided on in-wall and in-ceiling speakers you made some compromises as far as sound quality goes. Why did you go with passive subs when you could have used a single powered, as their is a good reason that most subs are powered. I hope you were able to listen to them in person and your ears were happy with your results
My advise is hook it up and see if your ears are happy with the results. Changing out to a new receiver is a pretty simple task. For what it is worth I have an old Sansui receiver rated at 150 watts a channel that has a watt output and most of the time what I consider loud is output around 10 watts with peaks into the 30's. Crank it up to 50 watts and you start to peal paint.
By toady's standards your HK may look a little lean but back in the 1970's 50 Watts a channel was all that was needed to drive any speaker system. As I remember the relationship to watts to sound is logarithmic to double the sound output of your 50 watt HK you would need a 2,500 watt amp section. Perhaps that will put watts into prospective for you.
Knowing you are dealing with in-wall speakers would have been helpful information.
Generally speaking, in-walls will not perform as well as similarly sized standalone speakers.
But, to your original question, "Can your H/K drive the in-wall speakers?", the short answer is "yes". However, it all depends on how loud you want things to be and how large your room is.
In addition, using a passive subwoofer in this system will probably tax your receiver more than any other single facet of the system. Subwoofers demand a lot of power, and having your receiver provide that power in addition to 5 or 7 other channels is a drain.
If you've already installed the speakers, then there's nothing much you can do about that (another drawback to in-walls: it's a real production if you need to move or upgrade them).
I'm afraid there isn't much more to tell you. The system will work, but there are several areas with potential room for improvement, and they have little to do with the receiver.
I highly recommend you get an amp to power your passive subs. While 50 watts may be fine for your speakers, it won't do much for your bass. Your HK has the correct output to properly hook one up.
I think you are starting to see why we don't recommend in walls and in ceiling speakers especially those with passive subs. The specs for those subs alone told you that you were going to need between 100 to 200 watts to drive them. This would tax the majority of the 7.1 receivers on the market these days. Now you are faced with the need to purchase a high powered amp to drive your two subs.
I am sure that if you had taken the money that you spent on your collection of in wall speakers you could have purchased a stand alone 5.1 system with a powered sub that would out perform what your intend to install.
I am only running one sub. And I get the point on the in walls and ceilings but a stipulation of the significant other was either spend 2k on a decent bose system which im not forking over that kind of money for a surround, or make it not be seen which the in walls pretty much cover. I am pretty sure that a small amp is necessary. Reminder guys it does not have to be earth shattering just sound full and clean so as to hear the raindrops I can always upgrade slowly.
Between BO$E and inwalls, I'd take the inwalls.
For future reference, you could have gotten a system the size BOSE for much, much less. And it would have sounded way better than the BOSE junk.
I gotcha Dave but the wife says " I dont want to see speakers everywhere" I barely got this stuff as it is as she sees this as a big waste of money. But thats a womans opinion on most things that usually pertain to guys. The sub is passive I am going to run a 6.1 for now I am just trying to figure out if the sub is going to be ok behind the couch where we sit or if it needs to be in front of us by the television.
I have that older pioneer sx315 receiver on its way as well it pushes 1000 watts so I may test both and go from there.
You have my sympathy, you got yourself into a situation where you let your wife dictate your family HT speaker system based on vanity and perceptions of style and quality. As you can see she like many woman have neither the inclination or the ability to understand the basics of putting a good HT system together, but they are willing to spend $$$ on Bose. This is the reason you see so may TV's mounted above fireplaces with Bose Cube speaker system or even worse no speakers at all. Actually Bose is a very smart company because they know woman like those small little cubes and small passive sub and many men go along because they think the Bose name means quality because of their high price.
Had you joined this forum sooner and presented your goals, budget, and the fact that your wife is insisting of Bose speakers, we could have offered you many alternatives of smaller satellite systems to look at that are not much larger than Bose Cubes that would out perform them for significantly less money. In fact for your wife's $2,000 Bose Budget you could have been able to purchase a first class 5.1 speaker system and a very nice receiver to replace your HK.
The college of hard knocks can provide a very good education as long as you can afford the tuition. If you have not installed those in walls you might see if you can return them and start over by finding a good smaller satellite 5.1 system that would appeal to your wife's sense of style. If you stick with your in walls you are going to need to tell her you need an amp for your sub.
Wow that was both insightful and poetic... problem is your right. Thing about it is that I am not trying to make this my new hobby I am just trying to watch my favorite flicks and hear the rain drops on the movie. Yet at the same time I need it to sound well and not cause me some massive headache in getting it set up. Could you give me an answer on the in ceilings? Plain fact is I have them and thats not going to change, I spent 190 on all the speakers and 200 on the receiver so I feel like im doing alright for the size of the speakers and receiver. The in ceilings will most likely be the surrounds should I put them two feet on either side of the couch or what? That Dolby website honestly does not pertain to me with in walls and ceilings.
This discussion has been going on in various threads for some time. I assume your couch against the rear wall situation is another design element that was dictated by your wife as myself and others suggested moving it to the recommended sweet spot for both TV viewing and surround sound as found in the Dolby guide. However, you situation is what it is and to tell you the truth I have no installation experience with in-ceiling speakers as I would never use them, so I can't help you find the best place to put them in your ceiling in relation to your couch. All I can say is they should be to the side and just to the rear of your prime viewing area. Perhaps those who have more experience with in ceiling surrounds can add more.
Actually your wife should give you a gold star you put a system together for less than $400, when she wanted to spend $2,000. I don't see where she should have any problem letting you buy a amp for your sub.
For what it is worth when we did a total kitchen and family room renovation a couple of years ago I not only had a wife to contend with but an female interior designer. This is where I got the in site I shared with you. The whole kitchen and most of the family room went smooth until it came to the new HT and believe me we were at odds and it was two against one. I gave them a free pass on the family room in exchange for a leather recliner and design of the HT with smaller satellite speakers which is what I wanted in the first place. All I can say is it worked for us and two years later we both happy with our HT and all of the other renovations.