Hard time deciding on which SVS Sub to get..............

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Scott_E, Sep 6, 2001.

  1. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Im currently in the market for either a 16-46cs or 20-39cs. My room measures 12.8x8x16.8. Its around 1720 cubic feet. I mostly listen to movies and play games through my PS2 on my HT right now. Occasionally listen to rap music and some rock. Im starting to really lean toward the 16-46 right now. I love the lows and to feel the bass. One thing I was afraid of was missing out on some othe the midbass that the 16-46 is not tuned for. Ive read on here that a couple of people said there was a little less punch, howere this could be easily fixed by turning up the sub a little, and whalaa, it hit just as hard as before. One guy was given the option from someone from svs I guess, to look into custom ports , and that He could just switch out between the two at will, that one would give more low end, and one would give more mid kick. That seems veeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting in having the best of both worlds with ease. I love low bass. But can your really tell a difference between the 16-46 and the 20-39? Also, are what the other people on the forum said correct, that to remedy the midbass a little simply turn the sub up or run it slighty hot? Im saying this in regard to jeffry's (sp) post about the 16-46 vs sunfire. He said that the sunfire did hit a little bit harder, but to make the same effect with the 16-46 just run it slightly hot and there you go. This is what I got out of his post, please correct me if I am wrong. Ideas?
     
  2. Mike LS

    Mike LS Supporting Actor

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    If you're in the middle of the road like it sounds, I'd say go with the 20-39. I've got a single 20-39 in a room more than twice the size of yours....more than 4000 cubic feet (I can't recall exact measurements right now) and in the listening area of the room, I get an insane amount of bass from the single sub.
    I know the 16-46 would extend a little deeper, but I've been under the impression that it also reaches it's limits at a lower level than the 20-39 because of the enclosure area. So your idea of just upping the amp level of the sub may cause your sub to reach it's limits much sooner than you'd like.
    I may be wrong, but that's the idea I've gotten about it. I thing that in a room as small as you have, you'll be more than satisfied with a 20-39.
     
  3. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Tom or Ron should be stepping in here in awhile to give you a more definitive answer. You can also email them anytime and they are very quick in getting back with you on your questions.
    Parker
     
  4. John_P

    John_P Agent

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    Scott,
    I'm not sure, but you may be referring to me when you talked about a guy getting custom ports for his dual 16-46's (I posted that some time ago). FWIW, my room is a bit larger than yours (~14,000 cu. ft.), but I found a significant difference when I switched the ports out, (standard to a 21hz tuned port). With the custom ports, I seemed to lose alot of the "feel" I got used to with the standard ports. Needless to say I'm not using the custom ports. The custom ports did seem to play louder, but I was looking for feel as well as SPL's and the 2-3db difference was really not that much IMO. It's also true that the driver limit will be reached quicker on the 16-46's (Tom can confirm this), but I would believe that in a room your size, that should not be a problem, (again, Tom can confirm this). I am extremely happy with the dual 16-46's and would highly recommend them. I'm sure the 20-39's are great as well (most popular), but for me I wouldn't trade my dual 16-46's for anything, not even the 20-39's.
     
  5. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Hmmmm I see. Im not sure if you were the guy I was talking about in reference to the ports.I think Ill keep my choice to go with the
    16-46. I really dont listen to music all that much in my room and not nearly as much as I play games and watch movies. I really want the low frequency ext. that the
    16-46 delivers and if Impact doesnt suffice me enough then Ill just get another one. I would rather have the low frequency response and good impact now, and be able to get the good impact later on with relative ease (through adding a twin or getting diff ports), than to get great impact and not be able to get the low ext later on. Does my thinking here sound right? Could you get a port tuned and made that would give better impact than the 16-46 does right now, and still maintain alot of the lowend it delivers??
     
  6. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Now that I re-read your post again more carefully this time I see you mentioned there really wasnt that much of an spl gain when using the custom ports, this prompts me to believe I have made a good decision to stick with the 16-46.
     
  7. Robert_S

    Robert_S Auditioning

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    I have about the exact same room dimensions as you did. When I was shopping for my SVS I asked Tom which sub would be the best for my room.
    He felt with that amount of cubic feet, the 20-39 would go down to about 16-17hz. So this was good enough for me. You can *feel* the bass all over the room and it still gets loud.
    I was concerned the 16-46 would be moving a lot of air, but not as loud. So I went with the 20-39... no regrets.
    Robert
     
  8. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    So would that mean that a 16-46 in my room would get lower than 16?? I'm still convinced that Ill be more happy with the 16-46 than the 20-39. Now here's a question, will I be able to feel it with a 16-46?
     
  9. John_P

    John_P Agent

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    Scott,
    >> So would that mean that a 16-46 in my room would get lower than 16?? I'm still convinced that Ill be more happy with the 16-46 than the 20-39.
     
  10. Mike LS

    Mike LS Supporting Actor

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    Any SVS (or any good sub) will give you bass you can feel.
    But I'd say that it's more the volume of the bass instead of the frequency that's going to allow you to feel the bass. That was my point with the 20-39. More db headroom was what I was after, but I also wanted low extention, so I went with the 20-39 over the others.
    Still, email the guys at SVS to get a definitive answer.
     
  11. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Im thinking of sticking with my decision of the 16-46 since if I get the 20-39 Ill always wonder if I am missing anything. I can always get a 20-39 later on and pair it up with my 16-46. Actually Ive never thought of that until just now. Pairing the unlike subs together. Would that give both Impact and the low ext.? And so this will be up in the air also when the svs guys jump in here, you can tune a 16-46 to give really good impact and still maintain most of its low ext. right?
     
  12. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    And is that also true? Its more the volume of bass rather than the frequency that allows you to feel it??
     
  13. Mike LS

    Mike LS Supporting Actor

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    You can have a 16-46 custom tuned a bit above what it's starting rate is, but that will really make it about the same as a really tall 20-39. Along the same measure, you can have a 20-39 tuned a bit lower than 20htz, still giving you the added headroom and letting it extend a bit lower than normal. That's something to get w/Tom about.
    In answer to your question, I'd say that volume and extention go hand in hand. 16 htz at a high db level will knock you on your butt, but a 35htz note at high levels will have almost the same effect.
    Either way you go, you'll be getting some of the best bass you can buy (within reason), so I'd go with whatever Tom or Ron suggests. They know their product better than anybody.
     
  14. PS Nystrom

    PS Nystrom Second Unit

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    The simple fact is that us HT folks are going to always be questioning our equipment. Could this be deeper? Could it be louder? Could it be cleaner? Do I need progressive scan? Do I need EX/ES? On and on and on.
    For the SVS dilema, this is what I thought: the 16 goes deeper, but the 20 goes louder. I chose deeper for two reasons: one, I have a very small room (1680 cu ft) so I don't need as much volume; two, I can always add another sub if I move into a bigger house or just can't stand the idea that I'm missing some midrange.
    It sounds to me like you have the same basic concern as I did: the 16 goes deeper, but the 20 is louder. Honestly, once you get it calibrated (either model), you'll never once question your purchase. You're gonna say both "Damn, that's deep!" and "Shit, that's loud!" about either model. The SVS is just that good. It's going to knock your socks off.
    One last idea. Let's say for arguments sake that the 16 had significantly less midlevelbass than the 20. Even then I would probably choose the 16 because I am more impressed by the deepest possible bass than the loudest possible bass. It is a SUBwoofer after all! That's what it's there for.
    Pieter
    ------------------
    See my BoomRoom here. New pics as of Sep 01.
    [Edited last by PS Nystrom on September 06, 2001 at 03:51 PM]
     
  15. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Is the 20-39 noticably louder though? I mean can you really really really tell a difference?? When I stated earlier that some said to simply remedy the problem of the lack of midbass, just turn it up some in jeff's words, some people said that might make the driver reach its limit earlier. Well then I got the drift from one guy that since my room was so small, it would take alot more the make the driver reach its limit. So really, I could just turn it up quite a bit since it would take the driver longer to reach its limit since my room is so small, right? Is my reasoning flawed?
     
  16. John_P

    John_P Agent

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    Scott,
    No it's not really, really, really louder. About 2-3db in the given frequencies. This is how I use the subs. I have them calibrated to 78db (+3db from mains). When I listen at normal listening levels (watching tv), I boost it and additional 6db, when I am watching a movie (at movie volumes), I set the sub back to the calibrated level. Because ther are no limiters, "you need to be the limiter". In all honesty, either sub will be great, don't fret so much. I bought the 16-46 because I wanted the extra extension, I got the custom ports because I thought I was missing some SPL's. Like I said before, I went back to the standard ports because I liked the "fullness" of the lower extension. Either way you will be very pleased.
     
  17. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Well now Im really confused to which one I want. I sent this to Tom,
    "My room measures 12.8 x 8 x 16.8. Its around 1720 cubic feet. I have originally ordered a
    16-46cs for my room. After reading several posts im not so sure this will give me all of the sound I want. I mostly watch movies and play PS2 games. I love to feel the bass as well as hear it. I wanted all the bass I could get without missing a thing so I decided to get the 16-46. Well a couple of people have told me that with a room as small as mine, getting the 20-39 would actually be a better idea because it would really play down to around 16 or 17 hz in a room my size, and give me more headroom and larger amounts of frequencies. I am a real stickler for low end and I dont want to lose any of it. I love to feel the movie and feel the explosions in the games I play and movies I watch. Ive also noticed that there are custom ports that can be made. Ive read around that you could make a port for the 20-39 that would allow it to go slightly lower and still retain just about all of its headroom. Possible?? Which sub do you think would be better for me? Ive already placed an order for the 16-46 which i havent recieved notice that its shipped yet so I am assuming its not. Can you really tell a difference in the spl of the 16-46 and the 20-39? Can you really feel a difference in impact between the two? Would the 20-39 really play down to around 16-17hz in my room as others have said??? I would put the sub in the front right corner of the room. Ideas??"
    Thats what I sent to Tom, upon closer inspection of this thread, Ive looked at a post Robert_S made about Tom saying that in a room around my size, the 20-39 would actually go down to 16-17hz. Did I read this right? If thats the case then I might as well get the 20-39. Im sure I'll be happy with either, i jsut want maximum enjoyment out of this.
     
  18. Dalton

    Dalton Screenwriter

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    I have dual 25-31's and I couldn't be happier. I e-mailed several questions to Tom and he was very prompt with his answers. I have a 5,000 cubic foot room and the 25-31's are incredible. They were designed for movies in my understanding because I read somewhere(can't remember where) that the majority of LFE in movies does not extend down below the 20 to 25hz range. They deliver an incredible punch(very tight and accurate). In my music listening which is mostly hard rock/metal, they really hit hard and I have heard things in my cd's that i have never heard in them before. All in all I don't think you can go wrong with whatever SVS sub you purchase. Ron and Tom are very helpful and I appreciate them answering all my dumb(lol) and not so dumb questions. I am so happy i joined this forum and learned about SVS.
     
  19. Scott_E

    Scott_E Stunt Coordinator

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    Well Im planning on purchasing this sub for the long term and if there are indeed DVD's that come out with bass in the sub 20hz range then I want to hear it. The problem is Im also partial to loud stuff as well. Thats why I was especially interested in what Robert S said about Tom telling him that the 20-39 in a small room would go down to about 16-17hz. If thats true then that makes my decision right there. I would still ahve the greater spl and headroom the 20-39 provides while getting the great low end extension I love so much. Tom you out there? Can you validate anything about what Ive heard youve said??
     
  20. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Scott, I anwsered this question via the private email you sent to my SVS account. I think I suggested going with a stock 16-46cs and then trying out a custom port a few weeks later.
    here's a quick/dirty simulation of the response curves of each SVS,
    in both JPGs,
    yellow=25-31
    purple=20-39
    blue=16-46
    [​IMG]
    and here's the cone excursion for each,
    [​IMG]
    Note that the lower you tune the enclosure...the more excursion the driver will have in the frequency range about 1/3 octave above the tuning point to about 1 full octave above.
    For example...looks at the cone excursion for the 16-46. See how much more excursion the 16-46 has compared to the 20-39 in the very important 20-30hz range? And remember...even though the 16-46s cone is moving farther...it won't be producing any more SPL(a little less actually!)
    So you can tune here or there,making trade offs as you go... [​IMG]
    TV
     

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