Halloween (franchise discussion) (1 Viewer)

[JasonRoer]

Had Carpenter never gone for the "money" and did HALLOWEEN II, I think it's a great chance that every single HALLOWEEN would have been something different. It's great to wonder what the series would have been like. HALLOWEEN III gets a bad wrap because it doesn't have Myers but on its own I think it's a good film.

Plus, as much as I love the sequels, they really did ruin the ending of HALLOWEEN. It must have been great walking out of the theater in 1978 just knowing that The Shape was still out there somewhere. No explanation. He's just out there somewhere.

I agree with everything you've said here. And I absolutely LOVE Halloween 3. It's one of my favorite films in the franchise. As for just thinking the killer is out there somewhere - yes - it is infinitely creepier with that ending. Explanation destroys imagination - and it is in the imagination where terror truly resides.

 

[Bryan^H]

My rankings for the films:

Halloween

Halloween II

 

[Emcee]

I remember watching Halloween 4 and Halloween 5 a lot as a kid, and I often remember wondering "Where in the world is Halloween III because AMC never shows it." When it finally came on one night, I remember my father saying, "Michael Myers ain't in this one."

It took me years to "warm up" to the notion that Myers wasn't the villain of Halloween III, but I've eventually moved passed it. I bought the movie cheaply at a dollar store several years ago, and I enjoyed it when I watched it. Of course, the movie hasn't any place instead the Halloween franchise, but it shares the title, so we've got to include it.

Had the movie just been called Season of the Witch, or if the "Halloween" movies had already started their anthology idea after the first film, it would've been better received.

It's a good movie.

​

 

[joshEH]

I remember watching Halloween 4 and Halloween 5 a lot as a kid, and I often remember wondering "Where in the world is Halloween III because AMC never shows it." When it finally came on one night, I remember my father saying, "Michael Myers ain't in this one."

It took me years to "warm up" to the notion that Myers wasn't the villain of Halloween III, but I've eventually moved passed it. I bought the movie cheaply at a dollar store several years ago, and I enjoyed it when I watched it. Of course, the movie hasn't any place instead the Halloween franchise, but it shares the title, so we've got to include it. ​

Although to be sure, the film was written by John Carpenter and Debra Hill themselves, and represents not only their last direct involvement in the franchise prior to selling the rights to Moustapha Akkad (or, in Carpenter's case, at least until 2018 and the new sequel-trilogy), but also (as you mention) stands as the sole remaining artifact of their original vision for the "anthology"-nature of the films.

Also, Dean Cundey shot this one too, and Jamie Lee Curtis plays two different cameo-roles in the film, so it's definitely more of a "true" Halloween-sequel for me (even if obliquely) in several respects than some of the later ones in the series.

 

[Michael Elliott]

It'll never happen but I'd love to see Scream Factory's sale numbers from the first five. People on FB keep posting pictures of their orders and it seems 70% of them don't have HALLOWEEN III.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

My rankings for the films:

Halloween

Halloween II

Of course you mean the Rob Zombie films.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I remember watching Halloween 4 and Halloween 5 a lot as a kid, and I often remember wondering "Where in the world is Halloween III because AMC never shows it." When it finally came on one night, I remember my father saying, "Michael Myers ain't in this one."

It took me years to "warm up" to the notion that Myers wasn't the villain of Halloween III, but I've eventually moved passed it. I bought the movie cheaply at a dollar store several years ago, and I enjoyed it when I watched it. Of course, the movie hasn't any place instead the Halloween franchise, but it shares the title, so we've got to include it.

Had the movie just been called Season of the Witch, or if the "Halloween" movies had already started their anthology idea after the first film, it would've been better received.

It's a good movie.

​

If this was just called Season of the Witch it probably would be thought of as a beloved holiday classic. However, with Halloween 3 installed in the title, it becomes the odd man out. Personally, I find it the second best Halloween picture in the entire franchise.

I saw it in the cinema. I still remember as we walked out of the theater this totally enraged guy that looked a lot like Tony Danza yelling "What the f@#k was that? Where the f@#k was Michael Myers? What a f@#king rip off! I want my money back!"

This guy was off the charts mad and probably somewhat mentally disturbed. My friend and I loved it but in the days that followed seeing it we kept hearing from people what a piece of garbage it was because it did not have Michael in his mask killing people. It seemed to really anger a lot of people and I recall the comment "You don't make a Jaws movie without a giant shark and you don't make a Halloween movie without Michael Myers!"

I remember saying to people that John Carpenter had said he wanted to kill off Myers in 2 and that three began a series of different films all set on Halloween. I thought this was the coolest idea ever at the time. People would tell me he never said that and would never do that because "Michael Myers IS Halloween!"

When Halloween 4 arrived and Myers was back, I was the one saying "WTF!"

A funny aside. I've always seen these slasher films as mostly appealing to nerdy horror guys but with Halloween, over the years I've learned women love Michael Myers. Not sure why or what the attraction is to him but I think the Halloween series has as many and perhaps more female fans than male. I have no numbers to back that up but I have met a lot of female Michael Myers fans over the years that were not just "fans" they are "super fans."

I've not seen as much love for Jason from the Friday the 13th series. I think Freddie would be number two with women but Michael stands head and Captain Kirk mask over them all in women's hearts.

 

[TravisR]

A funny aside. I've always seen these slasher films as mostly appealing to nerdy horror guys but with Halloween, over the years I've learned women love Michael Myers. Not sure why or what the attraction is to him but I think the Halloween series has as many and perhaps more female fans than male. I have no numbers to back that up but I have met a lot of female Michael Myers fans over the years that were not just "fans" they are "super fans."

I've not seen as much love for Jason from the Friday the 13th series. I think Freddie would be number two with women but Michael stands head and Captain Kirk mask over them all in women's hearts.

Having been to some horror conventions, it seems to me that there are a significant number of kinky broads (bless their hearts) that are really into Freddy. I don't know what Robert Englund gets up to but if he wanted to, he could have a harem of extremely attractive young women in every city. Just to play armchair psychiatrist, I'd guess that some people feel a sexual element to Freddy coming into people's dreams and he also has more of a personality than the nothing personalities of The Shape or Jason.

 

[Malcolm R]

I feel like the horror audience is a majority female. It seems like when I see demographic breakdowns for attendance at most horror films, it always skews toward female.

 

[Bryan^H]

Too bad John Carpenter hated the follow up to his film.
1:37

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Having been to some horror conventions, it seems to me that there are a significant number of kinky broads (bless their hearts) that are really into Freddy. I don't know what Robert Englund gets up to but if he wanted to, he could have a harem of extremely attractive young women in every city. Just to play armchair psychiatrist, I'd guess that some people feel a sexual element to Freddy coming into people's dreams and he also has more of a personality than the nothing personalities of The Shape or Jason.

I've never seen one of the Nightmare on Elm Street pictures so I don't actually know anything about them. When they came out it seemed like it was some sort of horror comedy which I was not into at the time so I just never bothered with them. Due to that I just never really had any discussions about the pictures with people. I have noticed women like Freddy and maybe as Malcolm says there is a large female audience for horror. I have met plenty of women over the years that love horror pictures but mainly because it seems they like being scared.

I always found it kind of odd when women were attracted to these killers that did terrible things to women. Primarily women seem to be the main victims in these pictures. However, in real life there are these women that fall for serial killers and write them letters while they are in jail. Charles Manson was a creep but had a harem of young women. Maybe it is something about mothering the ultimate bad boy. I don't know.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Too bad John Carpenter hated the follow up to his film.
1:37

The film does pretty much attempt to go from the suspense film Halloween was to something more gory and nasty. Also, it was a sequel that diminishes the first film. So, I can't see why he would like it.

 

[JasonRoer]

The film does pretty much attempt to go from the suspense film Halloween was to something more gory and nasty. Also, it was a sequel that diminishes the first film. So, I can't see why he would like it.

While I ultimately still enjoy Halloween 2 (I'm a sucker for The Shape), what I don't like is that the film is supposedly a continuation of the night of the first film. And yet, the first film ended after people were sleeping and trick r' treating was all wrapped up, but here in the sequel, everyone is still out and about. Frankly, it was ridiculous. Why not just make it a year later with Laurie dealing with the trauma she suffered from the attack and the death of her friends? I realize it was a rush-to-capitalize flick, but it wouldn't have been too difficult to make a picture that more naturally followed the events of the first film.

 

[TravisR]

Too bad John Carpenter hated the follow up to his film.
1:37

No doubt there are fair criticisms to level at Halloween II and John Carpenter is one of my favorite filmmakers and his movies are the biggest reason why I got into and love the artform movies but I think another reason he doesn't like HII is because he's a grumpy old man.

I've never seen one of the Nightmare on Elm Street pictures so I don't actually know anything about them.

If you see the first A Nightmare On Elm Street and Wes Craven's New Nightmare, you'll be good. The first one is a legitimately good low-budget horror movie which is an area that Craven excels in. It's not as savage or low-budget as The Last House On The Left or The Hills Have Eyes but it's a brilliant idea and a reasonably scary movie. As the series went on, Robert Englund's charisma and comedic abilities started to take over and Freddy became funny over the course of the movies. I tend to agree with the assessment/joke in Scream where they say that the first one was good "but the rest sucked." To be fair though, the third one is pretty good (the story was written by Craven) and Wes Craven's New Nightmare is set in the real world & not in the continuity of the series and is a gem of 90's horror.

 

[WillG]

The sleazy sex cult angle seems like it would come right out of the Tarantino playbook.

Actually, Tarantino was briefly involved in the story phase of H6. Forget if any of his contributions made it into the story though

 

[JasonRoer]

No doubt there are fair criticisms to level at Halloween II and John Carpenter is one of my favorite filmmakers and his movies are the biggest reason why I got into and love the artform movies but I think another reason he doesn't like HII is because he's a grumpy old man.



If you see the first A Nightmare On Elm Street and Wes Craven's New Nightmare, you'll be good. The first one is a legitimately good low-budget horror movie which is an area that Craven excels in. It's not as savage or low-budget as The Last House On The Left or The Hills Have Eyes but it's a brilliant idea and a reasonably scary movie. As the series went on, Robert Englund's charisma and comedic abilities started to take over and Freddy became funny over the course of the movies. I tend to agree with the assessment/joke in Scream where they say that the first one was good "but the rest sucked." To be fair though, the third one is pretty good (the story was written by Craven) and Wes Craven's New Nightmare is set in the real world & not in the continuity of the series and is a gem of 90's horror.

I totally agree. I think the idea is absolutely brilliant. I have always loved the 1st film and New Nightmare. I'm a sucker for most of the others too, but 1 and New are the best by far.

 

[WillG]

No doubt there are fair criticisms to level at Halloween II and John Carpenter is one of my favorite filmmakers and his movies are the biggest reason why I got into and love the artform movies but I think another reason he doesn't like HII is because he's a grumpy old man.



If you see the first A Nightmare On Elm Street and Wes Craven's New Nightmare, you'll be good. The first one is a legitimately good low-budget horror movie which is an area that Craven excels in. It's not as savage or low-budget as The Last House On The Left or The Hills Have Eyes but it's a brilliant idea and a reasonably scary movie. As the series went on, Robert Englund's charisma and comedic abilities started to take over and Freddy became funny over the course of the movies. I tend to agree with the assessment/joke in Scream where they say that the first one was good "but the rest sucked." To be fair though, the third one is pretty good (the story was written by Craven) and Wes Craven's New Nightmare is set in the real world & not in the continuity of the series and is a gem of 90's horror.

I don’t know when the last time Carpenter publicly discussed HII, but it is kind of disheartening hearing him trash the movie and Rosenthal (especially since it was Carpenter that went in and did gorier reshoots while by most accounts Rosenthal was trying to make the movie similar in tone to the original). HII is popular with most fans of the franchise, so it would be nice if at least that was acknowledged.

As for Elm street, yeah, the original and New Nightmare are the more serious ones. 3 is entertaining, but the “MTV” influence was clearly there at that point. 2 is generally regarded as the worst (with the exception of “Freddy’s Dead”) but I know someone who regards it as his favorite sequel since it delved into more psychological horror. Thought that was an interesting take

 

[Malcolm R]

Actually, Tarantino was briefly involved in the story phase of H6. Forget if any of his contributions made it into the story though

Some rumors say that the script/premise Tarantino was working on for Halloween 6 was modified to become his film Natural Born Killers.

 

[TravisR]

As for Elm street, yeah, the original and New Nightmare are the more serious ones. 3 is entertaining, but the “MTV” influence was clearly there at that point. 2 is generally regarded as the worst (with the exception of “Freddy’s Dead”) but I know someone who regards it as his favorite sequel since it delved into more psychological horror. Thought that was an interesting take

I like Elm Street 2 well enough because Freddy is still scary in that one. And that "You've got the body, I've got the brains!" scene is an all-time great Freddy moment.

MTV influence? Oh, right...




Freddy waking up at the end with the ragdoll still makes me chuckle though.

 

[JasonRoer]

I don’t know when the last time Carpenter publicly discussed HII, but it is kind of disheartening hearing him trash the movie and Rosenthal (especially since it was Carpenter that went in and did gorier reshoots while by most accounts Rosenthal was trying to make the movie similar in tone to the original). HII is popular with most fans of the franchise, so it would be nice if at least that was acknowledged.

As for Elm street, yeah, the original and New Nightmare are the more serious ones. 3 is entertaining, but the “MTV” influence was clearly there at that point. 2 is generally regarded as the worst (with the exception of “Freddy’s Dead”) but I know someone who regards it as his favorite sequel since it delved into more psychological horror. Thought that was an interesting take

Agreed on the MTV thought. Dream Warriors might as well have been an hour and a half music video!