H/K AVR230 quirks from a Yamaha owner

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by MuneebM, Jun 3, 2004.

  1. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I was calibrating/tweaking a friend's speaker set up a couple of days ago and he has an H/K AVR230 receiver. I'm more accustomed to my Yamaha RX-V2400, so I found a couple of things I didn't like about the H/K receiver but I may have been doing the wrong thing, so if anybody can clarify, that'd be great.

    1. Can't set speaker distance for the subwoofer. Is this normal or did I miss something in the set up? Why would an AVR not allow for subwoofer distance?

    2. I calibrated using an SPL meter and the Dolby Digital test tones on DVE. I then verified the DTS test tones and they were off, especially the subwoofer level. I then verified with the AVR's test tones and they were also off. All three different test tones gave three different speaker level results: DD test tones on DVE, DTS test tones on DVE, and AVR test tones. On my Yamaha RX-V2400, when I calibrate for the DD test tones on DVE and verify the DTS and AVR test tones, everything is dead-on, why is this not the case on the H/K?

    3. The H/K's AVR test tones keep cycling quickly from speaker to speaker, making it extremely difficult to measure with an SPL meter. Is there anyway to have it stick to a particular speaker and manually cycle through all speakers? Also, why is there no test tone for the subwoofer?

    http://66.46.69.23/sigserv/pl/index.pl?p=1
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  2. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    Do some searches on the HK AVR-510 and AVR-520 and you'll find similar problem threads. Apparently from reading of these threads, there is a design defect at least on the DTS LFE output. I didn't realize it was universal with all levels being off.

    Also, most receiver test tones are not perfect, but relatively close.

    If your using the radio shack SPL, beware. I have the newest digital SPL meter and it's quite nice. HOWEVER, these are not perfect either. They have a +/- 1db tolerance. Which can make it off by a total of 2db. One day you calibrate and the meter's tolerance was -1 db. The next day you check the calibration and the meter's tolerance is now +1 db and saying the setting is now 2 db off. You just now need to fine tune the levels.

    It nice in that these SPL meters will get you close, but use the more important tool to do the fine tuning, that being your ears.[​IMG]

    Have a good one.
     
  3. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    I've never heard of ANY AVR with this "feature" nor any higher end pre pro for that matter. I don't see the relevance of this feature at all.
     
  4. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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  5. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    It doesn't matter. You are not supposed to localize where the bass is coming from. As long as your sub is in the right spot, the distance part is nothing to worry about.
     
  6. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    Cheaper receivers usually don't include the subwoofer distance and the older Yamaha(none THX) did not either.

    I have the Yamaha RX-V2095 and the Denon AVR-3803. RX-V2095 has no sub distance and therefore it's extremely hard to get the subwoofer within the correct phase with the speakers. Yeh, most subwoofers have 180 degrees and 0 degrees phase selections but most do not allow for a full continuous 0 to 359 degrees of phase change.

    Without speaker distance built into the bass management, you have to put the subwoofer the exact same distance away from the listening position as the main speakers, to get a good crossover between your speakers and subwoofer. Obviously you'll still need to use the subwoofer's 0/180 degree switch depending on how you subwoofer is directed.

    With the distance setting on the Denon AVR-3803, I do not need to set the sub at the same distance away from the seating position as the main speakers. The distance setting compensates for the phase differences that fall in between 0 & 180 degrees and 180 & 359 degrees. Now that I can set the sub anywhere, I can use my rooms boundaries as the guide for the best bass response instead of the bass management's limited options limiting the best subwoofer placement.

    You don't have to have a subwoofer distance option to get good bass, but to get the best bass that can be offered, you do.[​IMG]

    I would not buy a current receiver without the subwoofer distance. With movies this gets to be less relevant, but with music, it's a must and a priority.

    The overall results with music is that the subwoofer and main speakers merge as one, complete, with no weak upper bass or lower bass, and most importantly, no holes between upper and low bass that would make vocals less realistic.

    Again, I must emphasize, SUBWOOFER DISTANCE SETTING is a must for the best musical reproduction. If you have a subwoofer that allows a full continuous 0 to 359 degrees of phase change, then this option will be redundant with that "ONE" subwoofer.

    Have a good one.
     
  7. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Perhaps this explains why both my Pioneer VSX-45TX MCACC and my Yamaha RXV-1400 YPAO set my sub distance differently from the actual distance to the listening position where I placed the calibration mics?
     
  8. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    I feel this is true as the distance compensation gets it to the best setting, but differences in room boundaries can slightly change the phase from reflections. I set me subwoofer distance using a tape measure, then deviate the feet + and - away from actual distance. In some positions a distance that wasn't right on was the better selection.

    After positioning the sub to the room boundaries and to a position I could actually live with, I found that my actual distance this time was the best setting. I've never had bass this deep, flat, dynamic, and powerful with the Yamaha receiver's lack of a subwoofer distance setting. I'm extremely pleased with the fidelity of the Denon in many ways besides this one bass benefit. The Yamaha RX-V2095 now does bedroom duty. Kind of overkill but I couldn't buy a cheap receiver with the money I would get from selling the RX-V2095. Since it's still a hek of a performer, I decided to keep it then sell it for a measly $500.

    Have a good one.
     
  9. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    This is probably my case. I'm not sure if thats the case with the SVS I'm buying but the M&K I had did have this.
     

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