H/K AVR 520 or Outlaw 950?? as Pre-Amp

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Craig Ball, Jan 1, 2002.

  1. Craig Ball

    Craig Ball Second Unit

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    Ok heres the thing, I see that the H/K 520 is fully loaded, as is the 950. I already have six channels of amplification and six speakers just waiting to take advantage of a rear center. My biggest concern right now is silence, no hiss!! I have that now with my Yamaha Acurus Klipsch combo. The Acurus amps are amplifing the hiss that the Yamaha already had I just couldn't hear it before.

    Will the H/K Acurus be hiss free? Will the Outlaw Acurus be hiss free?

    I see the 950 is going to have DD-ES Great

    I see the H/K is going to have DTS-ES Great (I prefer DTS)

    The 950 has DPL II

    The H/K has DPL II and Logic 7

    I like the front inputs on the H/K even coax & toslink (COOL)

    The 950 No inputs.

    The H/K is cheaper than the Outlaw. I'm NOT SLAMMING the Outlaw!! I just want the best sub $,1000 Pre-amp/reciever to go with my Acurus Klipsch combo and thought the H/K had a lot to offer.

    Are there any important things that the Outlaw has that the H/K doesn't that I need to take into consideration?

    Thanks

    Craig
     
  2. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Craig: I''ve never had a receiver that was a quiet as a comparable preamp. The onboard amps on the receiver always seems to add some background noise even when using the preouts. I'd wait and see what the Outlaw 950 sounds like.
     
  3. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    If you're only going to the use the receiver as a pre-amp/processor, then the AVR320 is going to give you everything the 520 has and at a lower price.
     
  4. Craig Ball

    Craig Ball Second Unit

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    Thanks JohnnyG, It seems besides watts, that i'm not concerened with the only difference is the 520 has HDCD. I wonder if I should be concerned about that? Any more opinions would be appreciated.

    Craig
     
  5. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Besides hiss[it's really a none issue these days IMO],you might wanna consider the fact that the Outlaw has has far more

    complete bass managment,which includes it's 6ch direct input[though on that only a single 80hz point is available],and DD EX which the HK lacks,it has DTS ES only.

    I wouldn't sweat HDCD.
     
  6. Craig Ball

    Craig Ball Second Unit

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    If i'm using a seperate amp and eq to run my subs will bass management be an issue?

    Is DD-EX better than DTS-EX?

    The H/K has 8 discreet inputs.

    Craig
     
  7. Selden Ball

    Selden Ball Second Unit

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    Craig,

    Bass management in most pre/pros is handled just the same as it is in most receivers. If you select any speakers as being small, their low frequencies are redirected either to the front R&L channels (if they're set as "large") or to the subwoofer/LFE output. As usual, if you have multiple sources of low frequencies, you have to worry about the interference patterns in the room. Presumably that's why you're going to be using an EQ.

    Most receivers and pre/pros don't apply any speaker management to their 5.1 direct analog bypasss inputs, since timing, bass and gain adjustments are usually handled by the DSP chip. (Only a very few systems include analog bass management and individual channel gain adjustments.) As a result, some people are getting Outlaw's ICBM bass management unit, which can be used between the preamp outputs and the amp inputs. (People argue over whether this causes other problems.)

    DD-EX and DTS-ES are equivalent. Both derive the rear center channel from matrixed information in the surround channels. People argue over whether DD or DTS does it better. I think any differences are more a function of the editing than the technology. In principle, DTS-ES Discrete can be better than either, I suppose.
     
  8. RobP

    RobP Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought the 950 has DD-EX as well as DTS-ES Matrix and DTS-ES Discrete.

    Rob
     
  9. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  10. Scott Pagac

    Scott Pagac Stunt Coordinator

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    Lewis:

    Since I just ordered the H/K 520 (should arrive some time next week because of the holidays) would this be a possible DD-EX work-around:

    I am planning on using a seperate DD receiver (my current JVC) to run the rear surrounds in L7 and DTS-ES modes using the pre-outs from the H/K to a stereo input of the JVC. If I also run a seperate pair of cables from the L/R surround outputs (again, from the H/K) to different inputs on the DD receiver and set it up as Pro Logic, would that provide the "matrixed" rear surround needed for DD-EX? I am really hoping to use this work-around, providing I am correct in my theory.

    --Scott
     
  11. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Scott,yes it would actualy work with any other receivers as well.

    With the use of an external DPL decoder for EX,

    for best results you need to use the so called Dolby 3 mode which folds the surrounds into the mains,which are now you surround L-R speakers,so you won't loose the out of phase info from them.

    If your receiver lacks this mode,then use regualr DPL.

    Please note that this won't work with DTS ES Discrete.
     
  12. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

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    Scott, If the HK has the complete rear pre-outs which includes the rear center channel pre-out and if the JVC has 5 channel direct inputs then I think by connected the JVC via the 5 channel inputs you should be able to take advantage of DTS Discrete. I stress on the word think.
     
  13. Scott Pagac

    Scott Pagac Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you Lewis for your help and for bringing this "feature" of H/K's implementation of DTS-ES to my attention. I just want to verify with you (and the rest of the gang here) that this can be made to work or if I should just live with it and be happy with what I get (until the next round of upgrades). [​IMG]
    Unfortunately, my JVC does not have any channel inputs, just source inputs. My plan is to use the 5 amplified channels from the H/K to power the 5 main speakers. Then, use the Rear L/R Surround outs and hook them up to a source input on the JVC (CD input) and use the Main speaker amps on the JVC to power the two rear surround speakers for DTS-ES matrix/disccreet and Logic 7.
    Now, if I hook up another set of cables from the L/R Surround pre-outs from the H/K to another source on the JVC (VCR input) and set the JVC into Pro-Logic mode on that source (no, I do not have the Dolby 3 option on the JVC), will that provide the matrixed rear channel for DD-EX or would I have to add one more speaker to the center channel amp on the JVC to achieve this?
    If the latter is the way to go, I just might pass on my dreams of DD-EX entirely. I think I am pushing my girlfriend's limits with 7 speakers all over the living room in our apartment already. [​IMG]
    Thanks for everyone's help so far...
    --Scott
     
  14. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Scott: Although you can sucessfully try DD-EX in the manner you described, it will leave you yearning for the real thing. You will find yourself adjusting the volume controls for every movie that you watch, instead of just doing it once during calibration. I started the same way as you and then upgraded to an ADA 6.1 unit and then to a real DD-EX receiver. You may find that you like it enough to do the same thing... But, in the meantime... enjoy! Once you go 6.1/7.1 you won't ever wanna go back.
     
  15. Scott Pagac

    Scott Pagac Stunt Coordinator

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    John:
    Thank you for the confirmation. I can smile a little bigger when the unit finally arrives. [​IMG] I think the volume differences will be a small price to pay (at least for myself) until the day comes that I can go the seperate route. Until then, this will have to do (and I think it will do nicely).
     
  16. Richard Burzynski

    Richard Burzynski Second Unit

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    Regarding the HK320, does it also have L7?

    Rich B.
     
  17. Scott Pagac

    Scott Pagac Stunt Coordinator

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    Richard:

    Yes, the 320 does have Logic 7. In fact, the 320 is almost the same unit as the 520, but it (the 320) has a little less power and no HDCD decoding. The only other thing missing on the 320 that I can tell is another set of pre-amp ins that can be used for EQ's, etc..

    The 320 still has DPL II, DTE-ES, DD, and L7.

    --Scott
     
  18. Craig Ball

    Craig Ball Second Unit

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    I can't see where te Outlaw 950 has DTS-EX!! I only see DD-EX. Am I missing something?

    Craig
     
  19. Scott Pagac

    Scott Pagac Stunt Coordinator

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    Craig:

    This is from the Outlaw 950 FAQ page...

    Q. What is the basic feature package?

    A. The Model 950's features line up this way:

    *Surround Processing: Dolby Digital, Dolby Surround EX, Dolby ProLogic II (two modes plus ProLogic emulation with Panorama, Center Width and Dimension Control), DTS 5.1, DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete and DTS-ES 6.1 Matrix, DTS Neo:6 (two modes), Cirrus Extra Surround (5.1 and 6.1/7.1), "Five Channel" and "Seven Channel" Surround, True Stereo Bypass

    *Digital Inputs: Four optical, two coaxial

    *Direct Input: Full 5.1 channel direct input for outboard sources such as DVD-A or SACD

    *Analog Inputs: Nine in total: seven A/V inputs, all with both composite and "S" Video, two audio only for CD and Tape. All analog inputs may be switched to a "bypass" mode.

    *Component Video: Two inputs/One Output, HDTV capable bandwidth (40 MHz)

    *Digital Outputs: One Optical and one coax

    *Tape Outputs: One set for audio and two for video

    *Multi-Zone: Separate source may be fed to a second zone or tape recorder, even while the main room is off. Separate amplifier trigger for the remote-zone amplifier.

    *IR: Separate inputs for remote sensors in main room and remote zone.

    *Triggers: Separate triggers for the main room and remote room power amplifiers

    *Remote: Backlit, eight device capable with both internal IR code library and learning capabilities. Four separate macro programs may be entered.

    *Tuner: High quality FM Stereo/FM/AM tuner built-in

    *Removable IEC type power cord

    *Two line LCD display and comprehensive on-screen menu system

    *Triple Crossover system allows selection of different crossover at 40Hz, 60Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz or 150Hz for front left/right, center and surround speakers

    *Individual mode memories for each input

    *"Bypass" mode for all analog inputs routes the source directly to the precision, VCA controlled, analog volume control so that all digital processing may be bypassed

    *Full adjustment and customization of Dolby ProLogic II modes allows customized surround presentation

    *"Theater EQ" mode to compensate for the roll-off in many movie sound track

    *s € High-grade, audiophile components throughout, including glass-epoxy circuit boards and fully enclosed torrodial power transforme

    *r € Operating system e-prom socketed and removable for future upgrade possibility

    *Output level trim to input source or internal test tone for all channels

    *Separate power on/power off remote commands for easy use with third-party programmable remotes and in complex audio/video systems

    *Display Dim/Display Off settings for use in low-light home theater environments
     
  20. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Craig: here is the format listing from the October spec list for the 950. Since then, they also announced the addition of official Dolby Digital EX processing.

     

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