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H.265/HEVC and the Future for Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

Cinescott

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I recently started a project to back up 50 or so of my favorite Blu-rays to a HDD in bit-for-bit quality and ran into a wormhole of tech articles related to H.265.

Simply put, H.265 is the newest codec for high definition video (HEVC=High Efficiency Video Codec). It can apparently encode HD video in much smaller file sizes than H.264 without any appreciable loss in quality. It's intended for UHD applications, 4K, and high def streaming, as well as future 4K Blu-ray applications.

The problem for me is that while I could encode my back-ups with H.265, playback for now would be limited to my PC, since the newest codec is not currently part of the Blu-ray spec. I've never really run across a problem like this where I have the ability to somewhat future plan for a project, without all the necessary components in place.

The advantage for me to encode at H.265 would be smaller file sizes for my 1080p video and audio. Given that I have a self-imposed 2TB limit for my project, I'm kind of torn. More space with H.265 or current compatibility with H.264?

Perhaps a compromise is in order. Encode at H.264 for now (the known), and convert to H.265 down the road when it becomes the norm, but I'm not sure.

What is the likelihood for H.265 to be "the standard" for Blu-ray in the future? If it's a given, maybe playback won't be of much concern to me in the short run.
 

Worth

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I still suspect it's unlikely we'll see a 4K disc format. I don't see there being enough of a market for the studios to be interested. For most people, DVD is still good enough. And even if it does happen, I can't imagine we'll see any catalogue titles released on it - with the possible exceptions of perennials like Casablanca, The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind etc.
 

jcroy

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Cinescott said:
I recently started a project to back up 50 or so of my favorite Blu-rays to a HDD in bit-for-bit quality ...
(Going somewhat offtopic).

I tried doing something like this over the last year or so. In my case it was primarily tv shows, and some movies.

Initially I did this for stuff which was released on annoying double-sided dvd-18 flipper discs. Eventually also some blurays.

In the end, it wasn't really worth all the time, effort, and trouble (such as for various Universal released flipper discs).


These days I find myself just watching the actual bluray discs again.

The only stuff I watch now from the iso, vob, m2ts, etc ... files, is stuff from flipper discs and other "semi-basketcase" discs that had too many playback problems (ie. freezing, skipping, etc ...).
 

jcroy

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Initially I too also tried re-encoding some of the video files, in a foolish attempt to save storage space.

For tv shows, I found that it was just too time consuming to re-encode every single episode into another codec. (A single 45-minute tv episode took over an hour to re-encode on the computer). In the end, it didn't save much space.

In practice, it was easier and less time consuming to just watch the original disc, or watch video from the unmodified vob or m2ts files on the computer.
 

schan1269

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This isn't a "4k on disc" discussion. If BD itself survives, 265 will take over...eventually. The trick...Can 265 be used and it not require a new player at 1080P...
 

Persianimmortal

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In my opinion, it would be best to encode with H.264 for widest compatibility. I really don't ever think H.265 will become standard for 2K Blu-ray discs. I don't even see why studios or consumer electronics manufacturers would bother. Image quality vs. compression is already at excellent levels for 1080p content on Blu, and lack of compression is certainly not the reason why Blu isn't selling as well. It would only be 4K content that would require higher compression, and that would be encompassed under the separate 4K Blu-ray disc standard. Unless of course by saying "Blu-ray", you meant both 2K and 4K Blu-ray discs. Anyway the biggest use for H.265 is always going to be streaming/download, so it may never be used on any disc format.
 

Wayne_j

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I don't think h.265 will ever become standard on anything other than a new disc format. Definitely not on blu-ray where no current players will be able to decode it.
 

Stephen_J_H

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Depends on the architecture of the player. If it can be added via a firmware upgrade, that would be great.
 

FoxyMulder

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You have to be careful that re-encoding doesn't remove any quality from the original file, i prefer to simply buy a ten pack of Panasonic or TDK BD-50 blanks, non LTH variety, it roughly works out at about £3 to £3.30 per disc and if you have something like AnyDVDHD installed you just make an ISO to your computer and then use a blu ray burner to back up the disc, obviously this would work with hard drives as well and you lose no quality and it's quick although i always burn at no faster than 2.2 times because faster burning can lead to coasters, backing up to another disc and hard drive for multiple backups would be a good idea.

The good thing about the above way of doing it is that nothing is re-encoded, it's simply a 1:1 copy, use HTL blanks though.

I know it's not legal to make copies in the UK but it's wise to backup favourites from your film collection, you never know when something like disc rot or something else such as dropping the disc and causing a crack in it might happen.
 

mattCR

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Ok.. I admit, I'm really getting itno this as I just purchased a Sony 4K Camcorder, (AX100). I think there is going to be some movement toward a disc use of 265, and Sony pretty much intoned that we would likely see PS4 support for 265 content.
 

mattCR

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FoxyMulder said:
You have to be careful that re-encoding doesn't remove any quality from the original file, i prefer to simply buy a ten pack of Panasonic or TDK BD-50 blanks, non LTH variety, it roughly works out at about £3 to £3.30 per disc and if you have something like AnyDVDHD installed you just make an ISO to your computer and then use a blu ray burner to back up the disc, obviously this would work with hard drives as well and you lose no quality and it's quick although i always burn at no faster than 2.2 times because faster burning can lead to coasters, backing up to another disc and hard drive for multiple backups would be a good idea.

The good thing about the above way of doing it is that nothing is re-encoded, it's simply a 1:1 copy, use HTL blanks though.

I know it's not legal to make copies in the UK but it's wise to backup favourites from your film collection, you never know when something like disc rot or something else such as dropping the disc and causing a crack in it might happen.
I thought the UK was moving toward the way the US did with the digital ownership guidelines (as long as you maintain a physical legal copy present, and you do not sell, distribute or share your content, you may maintain an archived copy)
 

FoxyMulder

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mattCR said:
I thought the UK was moving toward the way the US did with the digital ownership guidelines (as long as you maintain a physical legal copy present, and you do not sell, distribute or share your content, you may maintain an archived copy)
I recall reading a brief article on it but i don't know how far along the legislation is, hopefully it will happen.

Here's the thing though, even in the USA and i believe this is worldwide now, they have Cinavia watermarks in a number of titles since mid 2012, you make a backup copy and try and play it in a blu ray player made after 2012 and after fifteen or twenty minutes the sound will mute, i know Sony/Columbia, Disney and quite a few Warner titles have Cinavia in them, this makes backups impossible unless you have a blu ray player made before 2012, such as my Oppo BD-83 or a media player like Mede8er MED600X3D 3D Media Player, i think Cinavia survives re-encoding too. A Link below telling more about Cinavia.

So despite the law allowing you to make a backup copy, the studio's are doing their hardest to stop it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia
 

jcroy

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FoxyMulder said:
You have to be careful that re-encoding doesn't remove any quality from the original file, i prefer to simply buy a ten pack of Panasonic or TDK BD-50 blanks, non LTH variety, it roughly works out at about £3 to £3.30 per disc and if you have something like AnyDVDHD installed you just make an ISO to your computer and then use a blu ray burner to back up the disc, obviously this would work with hard drives as well and you lose no quality and it's quick although i always burn at no faster than 2.2 times because faster burning can lead to coasters, backing up to another disc and hard drive for multiple backups would be a good idea.

The good thing about the above way of doing it is that nothing is re-encoded, it's simply a 1:1 copy, use HTL blanks though.

I know it's not legal to make copies in the UK but it's wise to backup favourites from your film collection, you never know when something like disc rot or something else such as dropping the disc and causing a crack in it might happen.
If I was young and had all the free time in the world, I think I would be into doing massive backups in this manner.

But these days, I have very little to no interest anymore in pursuing such activities. If a disc goes bad, I may very well just buy another copy for $5 or just live without it.


Back in the day, I use to tape all my favorite vinyl records and some vhs movies. Over the years, such copies largely ended up collecting dust on my bookshelves without ever being played again. (Not even a second time).
 

FoxyMulder

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jcroy said:
If I was young and had all the free time in the world, I think I would be into doing massive backups in this manner.
Not so young myself anymore, i'd only do it for limited edition films or ones i repeatedly watch.
 

jcroy

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FoxyMulder said:
Not so young myself anymore, i'd only do it for limited edition films or ones i repeatedly watch.
These days my "repeatedly watched" discs, is stuff that I watch 2 or 3 times during the year. Over the last year or so, it is stuff like Star Wars, some James Bond, Terminator, some Star Trek movies, etc ...

Most of my "viewing time" these days is eaten up by television shows, both dvd/bluray and broadcast. (Occasionally also movies from cable channels). In practice I find that I rarely ever watch a tv show season again, after I have seen it once already on dvd/bluray. (Though I still watch reruns of stuff I don't have on dvd/bluray, such as NCIS and Criminal Minds).

Lately I've been "binge watching" through the original Dallas. Not much time to watch anything else, if one is watching four or five (or more) 50-minute Dallas episodes every evening.
 

AnthonyClarke

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FoxyMulder said:
Not so young myself anymore, i'd only do it for limited edition films or ones i repeatedly watch.
Well, I'm quite young ... don't turn 70 for another two months -- yet I too would like to be able to back-up some special favourites. But I think that when the day comes that I buy a Blu ray burner, there'll only be a handful of titles I'll back up, and I'll do those in uncompressed format for maximum future playback compatibility. My corrected ratio The Big Country is a natural backup candidate of course, along with my precious HD copies of Pollyanna and The Parent Trap ....
 

Cinescott

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AnthonyClarke said:
Well, I'm quite young ... don't turn 70 for another two months -- yet I too would like to be able to back-up some special favourites. But I think that when the day comes that I buy a Blu ray burner, there'll only be a handful of titles I'll back up, and I'll do those in uncompressed format for maximum future playback compatibility. My corrected ratio The Big Country is a natural backup candidate of course, along with my precious HD copies of Pollyanna and The Parent Trap ....
I had thought of burning to disc as back up, since I do have a Blu-ray burner, but the DL blanks are so expensive (~$4-5 ea). Given that and the fact that portable HDD space is so inexpensive now (2 TB for about $80), it seemed a no-brainer for me.
Having my favorites on two types of media as well (physical and HDD), seemed a good choice too. Physical can rot and HDD can fail, but unlikely at the same time. I suppose if that did happen, I'd rely on eBay. The HDD essentially gives me a template from which I can burn to just about anything in the future. Also, the quality of 1080p for home use gives me confidence that even if/when things move to 4K on disc, the version I have is still pretty good. It's basically as good or better than when I saw it in the theater and that's good enough for me. It's unlikely that many of the titles I would select would ever see 4K either.

Backing up to a hard drive also gives me the freedom to do things like adding commentary tracks (from laser or elsewhere) or stripping out foreign tracks I know I will never use to save space. I had also thought of backing up absolutely everything from the disc onto HDD (menus, etc.), in Blu-ray's unique structure, but in the end decided that the MKV container for the main feature and some favorite documentaries was the most flexible. There's little guarantee that the Blu-ray spec. will survive into the next disc format, so I wanted the maximum flexibility possible. 1080p video, uncompressed audio, multiple tracks, subtitles, chapter marks, etc. are all preserved in one file with MKV. H.264 and MKV seems to be a good fit as well. Also, given the fact that H.264/AVC has been around for a decade or more, I should be able to decode it in one way or another during my lifetime (I'm an older codger too). That's about as future-proof as I'll ever get, and it can be fun.

Surprisingly, I found it rather easy to list 50 films that I would want with me if stranded on a desert island. After about 40 or so, they trail off rather quickly, even though I fully enjoy the 200 titles in my collection. It comforts me in my advancing years to know that if my discs did indeed fail, that I am at least making an attempt to preserve the core of my collection in as widely-adaptable video format as exists at the moment.
 

jcroy

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I don't have any limited/special/rare edition dvds or blurays. I primarily buy mainstream widely available stuff. (ie. I don't order anything MOD nor anything from TT, etc ...).

But back in the day, I did have quite a few limited/special/rare edition music cds, as well as many out-of-print ones. I don't back up all of them, but I do backup the ones that I still listen to frequently. (One is from an limited edition box set).

If I owned any limited/special/rare edition dvds or blurays that I watch frequently enough, I may very well back them up too. For example if one day I ever buy anything from TT, most likely I will back it up.

ie. If I ever buy anything from TT, it better be something that I really really really want to watch many times.
 

kathy13xia

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It is true that few media players supports H.265/HEVC as playable media type even for VLC media player. I tried to play one of my H.265 MP4 videos in it, it indicates the vide codec is unsupported.
 

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