GYPSY (1 Viewer)

[classicmovieguy]

There's a book which has a segment on "Gypsy" and the film. It's pretty interesting. Originally Rosalind Russel was going to do a film based on the book by Gypsy Rose Lee - it was not going to be a musical. Then WB bought the rights to the stage show - the writers didn't want to sell them at the time but WB said they would cast Judy Garland and the contracts provided they keep at least three songs (to be sung as performance pieces and over the opening credits) Warner had just finished filming  the Broadway musical  "Fanny" - but the musical score wasn't sung it was regulated to background music.
Russell still wanted to play Rose and Warner thought musicals might come back (West Side Story was getting good notices) Early in 1962 "Gypsy" began filming as a regular musical
At one point early in the opening of "Gypsy" on Braodway, Russell went backstage and said to Merman what a great role she had (of course Russell was after the role herself)
Don't know how true it is but somewhere I read the cut numbers were cut because preview audiences didn't like seeing Karl Madlen sing (although he's not bad and given little to sing)

Angela Lansbury has told a similar story of Lucille Ball visiting her backstage at "Mame". Apparently Lucy gushed over her, saying that she (Angie) was definitely on the cards for a movie version and that she was finally going to get her due in a movie. But as Angela walked across to take her position for the beginning of the show, she noticed Lucy standing in the wings, watching her every move, and her mind clicked over - "Oh my God... I'm not going to get this movie...".

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by KPmusmag /t/325589/gypsy/60#post_4010862
Wow, that's really something! I will have to watch MY FAIR LADY again; perhaps there is a picture of Julie Andrews somewhere on the wall of Higgins's study!

Doubtful. But you may find a very early image of someone else in the film on one of the walls.

RAH

 

[GMpasqua]

Yes, that would be Gladys Cooper (Mrs. Higgins).

Lucille Ball was approached to do the stage version of "Mame" before Angela was cast, so seeing Lucy in the wings should have given Ms Lansbury alarm

 

[Matt Hough]

Yes, that would be Gladys Cooper (Mrs. Higgins).
Lucille Ball was approached to do the stage version of "Mame" before Angela was cast, so seeing Lucy in the wings should have given Ms Lansbury alarm

So was Rosalind Russell.

 

[classicmovieguy]

Wow - awkward. So the bruhaha of "Gypsy" didn't stop Russell from trying to do another musical with "Mame"? Wonder if they'd have dragged back Lisa Kirk again...

 

[MatthewA]

Originally Posted by classicmovieguy /t/325589/gypsy/60#post_4010969
Wow - awkward. So the bruhaha of "Gypsy" didn't stop Russell from trying to do another musical with "Mame"? Wonder if they'd have dragged back Lisa Kirk again...

I had heard rumors they considered Lisa Kirk to dub Lucy in Mame and Lucy put the kibosh on it (though she had no qualms about using an unconvincing vocal double on at least one Here's Lucy episode). Perhaps that film's reviews would have been more favorable if she had been dubbed, but we'll never know.

 

[GMpasqua]

A good friend of mine worked on the movie "Mame" and spoke very highly of Lucy. He said Lucy worked really hard. She would go to the dailies every night/day and when she heard her voice she knew she wasn't cutting it ( so much so that she would leave the screening room in tears). So they brought in a dubber - which may have been Lisa Kirk - who would have been a good match - but it just didn't work, and in the end they used Lucy's voice. Sometimes dubbing works fine : Roz Russell in "Gypsy" Richard Beymer in "West Side Story" "Chris Plummer in "The Sound of Music" even Cyd Charisse in all her films - you really aren't aware those actors are not using their own voice. But sometimes it is quite noticable and the voice is not the best match - Audrey Hepburn in "My Fair Lady" is one of the best examples, Marianne McAndrew in "Hello, Dolly"

Lucy had a lot of her own money invested in the film of "Mame" and wanted to play the role unlike her tv characters. She actually thought she would stand a chance at winning the oscar when filming began, but when the film was completed she knew otherwise. She also didn't want to lose her investment.

Other singers who came in and dubbed Roz in "Gypsy" were Rose Marie (the Dick Van Dyke Show) and Eileen Wilson, but in the end Lisa Kirk did all the dubbing, except on Mr Goldstone, Together and Rose's Turn (except the end which is Lisa Kirk)

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by classicmovieguy /t/325589/gypsy/60#post_4010969
Wow - awkward. So the bruhaha of "Gypsy" didn't stop Russell from trying to do another musical with "Mame"? Wonder if they'd have dragged back Lisa Kirk again...

No, not exactly. When it was decided to do Auntie Mame as a musical, Roz was the first one the producers went to for casting since she had done the original play/movie. She immediately told them she wasn't interested.

 

[Matt Hough]

I think Cyd Charisse's voice doubles were all just fine except for India Adams who was not a smooth voice match for Cyd in The Band Wagon.

I didn't know about the other trial voice doubles for Russell in Gypsy. Interesting choices. Eileen Wilson could have done it justice and sounded like Russell enough to pass muster, but I do think Lisa Kirk was the best fit.

 

[Joe Caps]

Some thoughts. I went through all of the production files on Gypsy filed at USC.
There is NOTHING about Rose Marie doing any work on this film.
eileen Wilson recorded all the tracks and Roz filmed to Eileen Wilsons voice.
Miss Wilson had a rercording contract with a small label. the label would not permit her voice to appear on a Warner records soundtrack LP, hopping
that Jack Warner would be fvorced to let the small label have the soundtrack album rights to the film. they thought wrong. Jack ordered Eileens voice off the track and have a new dubber loop in new vocals.
At this point, Roz saw her chance and said"I can do it, I can do it" then roz relooped all of the vocals.
this seemed to work fine, until a test screening, where the public made it quite clear they didn't care for roz voice.
Then Lisa Kirk was brought in to loop, again, another set of vocals for the film.
Oddly, Have an Egg roll, Mr. Goldston was not prerecorded, but recorded live on the set. thats still all Roz.
Warner Records thought that Natalie Wood was so good, they offered her a recording contract !!!!!! She wisely turned them down. Natalie was thrilled to finally have her singing voice in a film, as she was copletely dubbed in West Side Story. She was later dubbed for the Great Race and Inside Daisy Clover
BTW, I think Cyd Charisse was almost always dubbed by Carole Richards, Carole also dubbed Betta St. John in the Robe and Vera Ellen in Call Me Madam. India Adams was used for Band Wagon when another singer proved not availabe (perhaps Carole Richard who over at Fox doing the Robe and Call Me Madam?)
I actually have only one recording of Vera before she was dubbed for a film - really bad !!!!! But a great Dancer.

 

[Paul Rossen]

Joe-
As always, fascinating stuff!

 

[KPmusmag]

I would love to hear those Eileen Wilson recordings. That would be really fascinating.

 

[Robin9]

I think Cyd Charisse's voice doubles were all just fine except for India Adams who was not a smooth voice match for Cyd in The Band Wagon.

I agree.
Don't forget that other mesmerising dancer, Rita Hayworth, was also always dubbed and always very expertly.

 

[classicmovieguy]

I had heard rumors they considered Lisa Kirk to dub Lucy in Mame and Lucy put the kibosh on it (though she had no qualms about using an unconvincing vocal double on at least one Here's Lucy episode). Perhaps that film's reviews would have been more favorable if she had been dubbed, but we'll never know.

I think Carole Cook was Lucy's most frequent dubber on "Here's Lucy". Cook was a singer/actress whom Ball mentored when she re-instated Lela Rogers' "Little Theater" actor training programme at the old RKO Studios.
I actually quite admire Lucy's work in "Mame". She was in fact still recovering from a broken leg and worked overtime to get herself back in dancing shape for the role.

 

[Rob_Ray]

It was probably too difficult to realistically dub Lucy's voice in "Mame" because she had performed 'live' using her own voice for too many years on her various TV shows. Whenever Carole Cook dubbed Lucy's voice on "Here's Lucy" the effect was very jarring because Lucy's true voice was, for good or bad, one of the most familiar in show business.

 

[Matt Hough]

Originally Posted by Rob_Ray /t/325589/gypsy/90#post_4011161
It was probably too difficult to realistically dub Lucy's voice in "Mame" because she had performed 'live' using her own voice for too many years on her various TV shows. Whenever Carole Cook dubbed Lucy's voice on "Here's Lucy" the effect was very jarring because Lucy's true voice was, for good or bad, one of the most familiar in show business.

Lucy's voice doubles in both Best Foot Forward and Dubarry Was a Lady were terribly chosen; they didn't sound anything like Ball's voice. And in Dubarry when Lucy herself sings her parts in "Friendship," the contrast is mind-numbing.

 

[classicmovieguy]

The CD reissue of the "Mame" soundtrack from Rhino Handmade is quite painful to listen to, because it reveals a lot of the auto pitch adjustment and parts of songs where Lucy had to go back and overdub lyrics.

 

[Ethan Riley]

Lucy's voice doubles in both Best Foot Forward and Dubarry Was a Lady were terribly chosen; they didn't sound anything like Ball's voice. And in Dubarry when Lucy herself sings her parts in "Friendship," the contrast is mind-numbing.

Whoever dubbed her songs in "Fancy Pants" did a better job although it never fooled me--not even when I saw that film for the first time, at age seven!

 

[classicmovieguy]

Annette Warren was Lucy's dubber in "Fancy Pants". Martha Mears dubbed her for "Du Barry Was a Lady"; and Gloria Grafton sang for her in "Best Foot Forward".

 

[Garysb]

Wow - awkward. So the bruhaha of "Gypsy" didn't stop Russell from trying to do another musical with "Mame"? Wonder if they'd have dragged back Lisa Kirk again...

The producers of Mame offered Roz the role since she had done the non musical " Auntie Mame". She turned them down. That is different from her going after the role and being turned down. This was the stage version of Mame.