Great article on the Route 66/Naked City ownership issues (1 Viewer)

[Neil Brock]

My belief is that if the elements were requested by the legal current rights holder, they would not have a problem making the elements accessible. And I don't believe that they would charge for it. Unless I hear otherwise, I have no reason to believe that is not the case in this instance. I have never heard of a fee being charged to turn over elements to the proper rights holder.

 

[smithb]

My belief is that if the elements were requested by the legal current rights holder, they would not have a problem making the elements accessible. And I don't believe that they would charge for it. Unless I hear otherwise, I have no reason to believe that is not the case in this instance. I have never heard of a fee being charged to turn over elements to the proper rights holder.

That's your belief, I can respect that. But it doesn't change my belief that there could have been a more legitimate reason as to why Shout! was unable to get or use better prints at this time. Both are based on more speculation then hard facts. You mention never hearing of a "fee charged to turn over elements to the proper rights holder". What about a company that licenses rights for a period of time? Are they not a legal or proper rights holder for that period of time? From what I have understood there have been numerous examples of studio's not turning over better prints to independents in this scenario. Otherwise, why would they have to go searching for prints from other sources. Also, who is to say what really goes on in these negotiations since they don't seem to be publicized. At this point, there really isn't much more to say until (or if) more concrete information comes out since back and forth speculation isn't going to change anyone's opinions.

 

[DeWilson]

That's your belief, I can respect that. But it doesn't change my belief that there could have been a more legitimate reason as to why Shout! was unable to get or use better prints at this time. Both are based on more speculation then hard facts. You mention never hearing of a "fee charged to turn over elements to the proper rights holder". What about a company that licenses rights for a period of time? Are they not a legal or proper rights holder for that period of time? From what I have understood there have been numerous examples of studio's not turning over better prints to independents in this scenario. Otherwise, why would they have to go searching for prints from other sources. Also, who is to say what really goes on in these negotiations since they don't seem to be publicized. At this point, there really isn't much more to say until (or if) more concrete information comes out since back and forth speculation isn't going to change anyone's opinions.

A company who licenses the rights from an owner is different that the party who owns the rights. A licensor has no ownership rights, they just licence to distribute the property. SHOUT! is now the owner of the ROUTE 66 property (except for the remake and theatrical rights), not a licensor. Sony is now just a distributor for the current right holder - all they have the licence for is television syndication. (Think of it in reverse terms than the norm.)
As for past examples of a licensor having to seek out prints from other sources,which is TIMELESS - this was an issue with regards to the cost of striking up new masters the the negatives for shows broadcast masters did not exist, which was cost prohibitive. The were ALLOWED by Universal to seek out prints from other sources where needed - which was a win win for both parties - Universal could still licences them out, and Timeless could release them. (I know where many of the 16mm prints came from.) Eventually - Universal did find positive elements to many older shows that had not been transfered to broadcast masters.

 

[smithb]

Okay Denny, so lets just get to the basics of this particular scenario and go from there. So based on your reply:
- Shout! owns the rights to Route 66
- Sony has distribution rights Route 66
Couple of questions:
1.) Does Shout! having owner rights require that Sony has to freely turn over anything in their valults related to Route 66 to Shout!?
2.) What exactly is in Sony's valults regarding Route 66 and what shape is it in? And what cost might be involved in getting it prepared for a DVD release?
We have heard of better tape masters floating around in the 80's used for broadcast that appeared better then what we ended up with for the season one episodes:
3.) Do you know who is in control of these tape masters now? where they are located? and what shape they are in?
4.) Do you have any concrete information regarding what Shout! did and didn't do in trying to gain access to the best pints available, or what associated costs might have been involved?
In the end, the whole discussion hinges on what wasn't done that could have been done to get out a better release, especially for the first half of season 1. There has been plenty of speculation about these prints from the 80's but nothing concrete that would state that Shout! had access to them (or something else), and that any potential cost associated with using them would have been within acceptable margins based on projected revenues.
You want to put all the blame on Shout! for not putting out a better release based on speculation of what may have been available. That is your right. Just as it is mine for cutting them some slack because I haven't seen any hard facts to substantiate that they didn't do what they could with the resources available. Taking a concept from Jerry Maguire "Show Me The Source Prints!" that should have been used (or concrete evidence of).
I don't claim to be an expert in this field, but it doesn't take an expert to come to a logical conclusion if the evidence is there to support it. I just don't see enough evidence to support your claims. If I did, I'd be happy to hold Shout! accountable for all the issues in this release.

 

[Mark Y]

Also, who is to say that video masters used by Nick At Nite in the 1980s would still exist now. Though I do remember back in 1994, they did a marathon of one episode each from every show they'd ever carried, whether they still aired on the network or not. I wonder what kind of deals they had to do in order to pull that off.