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grainy blue ray (1 Viewer)

erx_lo_es

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eric
hi all i have a question regarding blue ray.

my system:

toshiba 46xv54ou lcd
yamaha rx-v563 receiver
samsung bd-p2550 blue ray player
klipsch synergy 10" sub
klipsch vf-35 flor standing
klipsch quintet III
evrything is conected with HDMI cables

i just got the blue ray player the other day and watched my first 2 blue ray movies, 10,000 BC, and Hancock, both were very grainy. the whole movie was grainy not just the dark scenes but the complete movie. then i watched some of the bonus features like the interviews and they are crisp as could be. does the blue ray have to be adjusted some how?


thanks in advance
eric
 

Lew Crippen

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No—the grain is a part of the film. What you are seeing is what you would have seen in the theater.
 

Joseph DeMartino

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1) Lew is correct. Grain is part of film and some degree of grain is perfectly normal.

2) That said, it is still possible that you are seeing excessive "grain" which is an artificat of your television's settings. Have you calibrated the TV with Digital Video Essentials or Avia Guide to Home Theater to adjust it to your home and viewing condidtions, or is it still on the factory settings, which are always turned up way too high to make the set look good on the big box store sales floor?

Regards,

Joe
 

erx_lo_es

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eric
Ok the TV is still set from the factory. where would i find this Digital Video Essentials or Avia Guide? also i just want to say that regular DVD movies look way better than the Blue Ray.
 

Joseph DeMartino

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Most electronic stores that sell equipment in addition to DVDs should carry both the calibration discs I mentioned. So do lots of on-line sources like Amazon.com. Many people find Avia II to be the easiest of the major calibration discs to use.

And a maladjusted set will generally make hi-res material look worse than SD. There's more detail to screw up.
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif
When I got my first HDTV I was disappointed at the quality of my SD TV channels, but appalled at how the HD channels looked. I was thinking about taking it back to the store. An hour or so with Digital Video Essentials and I couldn't have been happier. The SD channels mostly looked good (although there is a limit to how much the scaler in a TV can improve SD material - and it varies with the quality of the source) and the HD channels looked great. Almost three-dimensional. My SD DVDs also mostly looked very good (again, depending on the quality of the original material. My CSI discs look almost as good as the new HD episodes over my cable system. Old laserdisc transfers ported to DVD? Not so much.)

But your really cannot judge an HDTV until it has at least been adjusted to spec with one of these discs. (A professional calibration by a trained tech with the right equipment - which costs several hundred dollars - will do even more, but that isn't an option for a lot of us. ;))

BTW, the discs will also help you adjust your sound system to match your room, if it doesn't have a built-in system for doing so. You'll need to invest in a sound pressure level (SPL) meter. Radio Shack sells an analog model for about $40 and a digital one for more money. Stick with the analog, the digital offers no advantage for a home theater application that would justify the extra money.

Regards,

Joe
 

RickER

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Oh my god.

No..They dont, they look fantastic on Blu. I rented both, and i thought they looked very nice.

Trust me, they look better than the DVD would. You are either doing something wrong, or you are expecting them to look like video games, or something.
 

erx_lo_es

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eric

well i absolutely expect it to look a hell of a lot better than it does. and if i am doing something wrong im trying to figure it out. i rented 2 more movies and its the same crap. in my opinion it should look as good or better than watching HD cable. is that wrong to expect that? and the HD cable is extremely crisp and i dont understand why that it is and the blue ray isnt.
 

Michael Reuben

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You'll have to be more specific. What "HD cable" are you comparing it to? For example, the Discovery Channel is entirely HD video. Movies on Blu-ray will never look like HD video, because they're not video; they're film. Film doesn't look like video, in the same way that oil painting doesn't look like photography.

It would be extremely helpful if you could identify by title:
  1. the Blu-ray titles you find unsatisfactory
  2. the DVD titles you find preferable
  3. the HD channels and/or programs you find superior
This information would give people a better idea of what kind of adjustments (if any) might be helpful.
 

erx_lo_es

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eric

thank you michael now it makes some seance. i didnt know there was a difference between video like the Discovery Channel and movies "film".

twister on DVD looked really good
the incredibles really on DVD looked real good

10,000 BC blue ray grainy
hancock blue ray grainy
meet dave blue ray grainy

now i just got back from wall mart and they had a demo blue ray playing where the screen was split with dvd on one side and blue ray on the other and the blue ray looked great but i still see the graininess.

when i watch a dvd it doesn't look as clear as the blue ray but its not grainy. i just dont understand. isnt blue ray supposed to be up to 6 times better than dvd? if its grainy how does that make it better? if its me then just tell e that im expecting too much.
 

RobertR

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It sounds like you're not "expecting too much", but expecting the wrong thing. You seem to equate "good looking high definition" with "no grain" (you like the look of The Incredibles, which wasn't made on film). As has been pointed out, grain is an inherent part of film, and a well done Blu Ray will show natural film grain better than DVD. The presence of such grain is an effect of higher resolution, not lower. How often do you watch film in a movie theater? When you do, you'll see grain, and this is what a well done Blu Ray replicates.
 

Joseph DeMartino

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Have you calibrated your set yet? Because if you haven't you are wasting your time with these comparisons.

Regards,

Joe
 

erx_lo_es

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eric
thanks joseph and robert, you guys definitely helped me understand what i am looking at. i never thought that the high quality would bring out the small imperfections of film out to a greater extent. i havent calibrated the TV yet, maybe next week. ill let you guys know how that goes. one more question should i set the TV to film when watching blue ray and set it to video for watching TV? thanks again.

eric
 

Joseph DeMartino

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One of the things that will make any source material look "grainy" on an HDTV is the "sharpness" or "detail" setting. If you do nothing else until you get a calibration disc, turn this down to no more than 10%. Your final calibration will probably put it lower than that. "Sharpness" merely adds noise to the video signal in order to make the edges of objects stand out more, and it often produces little static-like speckles that get mistaken for film grain.

Part of what you're going to deal with here is simply the fact that you've grown up watching incorrectly adjusted NTSC televisions and that looks "normal" to you. Those of us who have been HT hobbyists for a long time went through a lot of the same issues back in the laserdisc days, and in the early days of DVD. When I first watched Terminator 2 on my (analog, SD) 56" widescreen Tosihba RPTV after it was calibrated, it looked "wrong". The image seemed slightly too dark and it seemed to lack detail. But after a few days of living with the new settings I realized I was actually seeing more detail, especially in the dark scenes, because the noise added by the sharpness setting was gone, and the white/black balance was correct. But my impulse was to go back to the default settings because I didn't know what a TV picture that actually met the NTSC spec looked like. The other thing I learned with that set was that a large screen and correct settings are no friend to marginal material. I had a ton of movies taped off cable on VHS tapes in those days, recorded when I had a 19" direct-view TV, and they were absolutely unwatchable when blown up on the Toshiba.

As noted, above, I went through something similar with my first HDTV, although I was less panicked, because I knew that I wasn't seeing what the set could really do with the out-of-the-box settings, and I couldn't judge it until I had it calibrated.

But seriously, in the meantime, turn down that sharpness. I bet you'll see a 50% improvement in the apparent image quality.


No. You're better off setting to "automatic". Most of what you watch on primetime television is, in fact, shot on film, rather than videotape, so unless you want to constantly change settings, you're better off letting the set detect the incoming signals and make the adjustment itself.

Regards,

Joe
 

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