GR AV1 loud enough (1 Viewer)

[AlexKunec]

I plan on building some AV1s from Gr Research for music and HT. I like to listen to music at fairly high volumes. I have a moderately sized room, with a Yamaha 85wX5 receiver and shiva subwoofer. Would the AV1s put out enough or would I probably be overpowering them?

They seem kinda small and I already blew the VC on similar sized speakers (Cheap prebuilt ones).

 

[Martice]

Hi Alex. I would then purchase the AV1+ speakers. Instead of one 5 inch woofer it comes with two. To give you more to chew on, I took a chance by selling my PSB Goldi's and purchased these UNHEARD. I wouldn't recommend this strategy as we all know how picky we can be over our speakers but I'll tell you this, in terms of mid range clarity, detail, and sound stage, I don't miss them. I strongly recommend that you have a quality sub that's capable of keeping up with the AV1+'s in terms of pace and speed.
My room is 11x17x8 (not the biggest room) but Brian Bunge of Link Removed has the smaller AV1's in a larger room than mine. He's also the one who built my cabinets on the link by my signature.
Good Luck

 

[Brian Bunge]

To add to Martice's comments concerning the AV-1's, I was getting 102-103dB peaks in the Pod Race scene from TPM with all speakers set to small (100Hz fixed with my receiver) in my 15.5' x 18' room with 16' cathedral ceiling. The room is also completely open to the rest of my house. I did not notice any stress or strain at all and my receiver is rated at 100W x 5.
The only way you'd be overpowering them is if you completely disregard the sound of a speaker that's being pushed to it's limits. If the speakers sound strained, you should turn the volume knob counter-clockwise a bit!
Brian

 

[James W. Johnson]

Brian I am sure you know this but you won't get 103dbs your subwoofer off, not even close.

Also I would consider 103db peaks extremely quiet for that scene.

I like my peaks in some heavy sound effect action type movies to get up to around ~113dbs..just enough to make you

jump a little bit when something happens.

This is a calibrated system with a phantom center, I adjust the volume to around 80dbs for dialogue and the

DVD does the rest.

Alex, your 85x5 Yamaha could'nt overpower any speaker that I know of. You probably clipped the hell out of it.

Sounds to me like you need a nice 2 channel amp for your front speakers that is around 200wpc.

And if you want a clean loud speaker that you will have a hard time blowing then I suggest you take a long hard look at the Kit281s from Adire.

I highly doubt you would be happy with any 5.25" midrange based speaker.

Even crossing them at 100Hz I know they would be working like crazy at high volumes..hard work = distortion.

A 5.25" driver is a midrange driver , its not big enough to handle everything.

IMO 6.5" is the smallest driver that should be used for midwoofer duties.

The Kit281s AV8s are 8" drivers but the actual cone and surround measure 7", this driver barely works at high volumes and it also sounds good at low volumes.

With the Kit281s set to small (100Hz), and a dual Tempest subwoofer I can almost get to 115dbs for regular music playback. But they cannot handle alot of this.

They sound really good and can go all day at around 105dbs.

If you are looking for volumes higher than this then you would have to get a high power, high efficiency speaker that is 98dbs+.

 

[Martice]

I highly doubt you would be happy with any 5.25" midrange based speaker.

I agree, if he wants to listen to music/movies at concert levels all day I also wouldn't suggest AV1's or any other smaller speaker to him. However, in the case of the AV1+'s I would recommend the AV1+'s for small to medium sized rooms for movies and music and since I'm speaking from experience (as you also seem to be) and being the former owner of full range speakers that are very comparable to the Kit281's, I will say that in terms of detail, midrange clarity and soundstage I preferred the GR Research speakers to them.

Also, I heard the Kit281's for about an hour and a half at a friends house with my music and movies and they are very good speakers but reminded me of my old full range speakers namely the Paradigm Ref 100v2's which I sold for the PSB Goldi's.

Go figure huh? I guess it all does come down to taste, preference and listening habits.

*** Alex where are you located? Maybe we could arrange a listen.

 

[Brian Bunge]

James,

Yes, I know I'd not get anywhere near 103dB's with the subs off. Also, keep in mind that my room is basically my entire 1700-1800 square foot house. It's built on a 6" concrete slab on top of Georgia red clay (in other words several feet thick of concrete like substance!).

I'm also not trying to reproduce concert like sound and haven't heard an 8" driver that produces the midrange quality of a great 5.25" driver. Of course, I've not heard the Kit281's either. But it's my understanding that their biggest weakness (if there is one) is in the vocal range. That's why I'm using AV1's and will cross them over to my dual 12's and then cross them over to the Blueprint 1803.

Brian

 

[James W. Johnson]

Yeah I guess its all about tradeoffs, no speaker is going to give you everything that you want.

I am not sure where people come up with the idea that the Kit281s lacking midrange ability.

IMO:

Instruments and vocals in the midrange area sound sweet and creamy , also the words drippy and silky come to mind. The midrange area is full and

satisfying.

To me alot of speakers that use small mids can sound fake,

almost tinny.

The Kit281s really excel at Jazz intruments and dynamic music like classical and techno/house.

Freq range of these instruments:

Instrument Frequency range Hz

Piano (concert) 27.50 - 4,186.00

Bass Tuba 43.65 - 349.23

Double Bass 41.20 - 246.94

Cello 65.41 - 987.77

Viola 130.81 -1,174.00

Violin 196.00 - 3,136.00

Clarinet 164.81 - 1,567.00

Flute 261.63 - 3,349.30

French horn 110.00 - 880.00

Trombone 82.41 - 493.88

Trumpet 164.81 - 987.77

Guitar 82.41 - 880.00

Human voice range:

Type of voice Frequency range Hz

Bass 87.31 - 349.23

Baritone 98.00 - 392.00

Tenor 130 - 493.88

Contralto 130.81 - 698.46

Soprano 246.94 - 1,174.70

I don't know for sure but looking at these charts it seems to me that MOST material is below 1000hz.

Now isn't the midrange more around 700-5000Hz?

You be the judge would you rather have 1000Hz and

down covered very well or would you rather have 1000Hz-5000Hz covered well?

IMO 1000Hz on down is the most important.

the AV8s handle everything below 1000hz like champs

and do well up to 2000Hz very good as well.

The F1 tweeter takes over at 2khz and does a fine job.

They extend down to 20Hz in my room and have usable output at 25Hz, no 5.25" driver can do that.

 

[Martice]

I am not sure where people come up with the idea that the Kit281s lacking mid range ability.

That depends what they were comparing the Kit281's too. What bookshelf speakers have you compared the Kit281's too? Although the comparison isn't at all fair for either side

"the AV8s handle everything below 1000Hz like champs

and do well up to 2000Hz very good as well.

The F1 tweeter takes over at 2kHz and does a fine job."

Compared to what? Just because a speaker can retrieve information in a given frequency doesn't mean that it retrieves it and performs well(relative). Without a comparison to something else the quote "the AV8's handle everything below like champs and does well up to 200Hz very good as well." may be all well and good but it's just an opinion without comparison as my assessment is an opinion with comparisons(with the actual speaker in question as well as comparable commercial speakers) but at the end of the day it's just an opinion like yours.

I heard the Kit281's and was about to purchase them but held off at the last minute AFTER my audition. As far as I'm concerned, I've gotten very similar performance from my Paradigm Ref 100's and although they are both very good speakers, compared to the AV1+'s in mid range clarity, detail and sound stage in my room, I prefer the AV1+'s.

 

[jeff lam]

I don't know how loud you need to get but the AV1's are plenty loud for me. I'm currently using a Yamaha RXV620 100x5 receiver and it's more than enough for my normal listening levels.

If you're looking for concert levels 100-110dB, you shouldn't be looking at bookshelf speakers. You need much larger are more efficient speakers.

But just remember that constant exposure to these levels for more than an hour will surely cause permanent hearing damage.

That's stinkn LOUD! I cant even imagine listening at that level in my home. In a concert hall yes, but in my home... NO WAY! I played TPM THX intro in my HT when I finished my Tempest sub and measured 108dB with my sub HOT by about 4dB (this was -20 on my receiver and I call it my false reference: 71dB with VE for mids and 75dB for sub).

Don't know how loud my MB1's and AV1's got but I heard no strain at all from them.

 

[James W. Johnson]

I think you answered your own question.

Well I guess we cannot compare the Kit281 to the AV1 because they are too different.

But we both agree that this speaker is not suitable for high SPL purposes.

I favor the Kit281s to three towers I have owned, Image 4ts

uses two 5.25" midwoofers, Paradigm Monitor 7s uses 6.5" midwoofers and the PSB Stratus Bronze, a 2.5 way design with 6.5" drivers.

Of those three the Stratus Bronze were by far the best and the Image 4ts were the worst.

It really is a matter of taste I guess, just like some people prefer boomy bass to realistic tight bass which can sound thin to the untrained ear.

 

[Brian Bunge]

James,

Yes, it's all about tradeoffs. I'd love to find someone locally that has a pair of 281's so I could compare them to my AV-1's and eventually to the AV-1+'s sitting in their shipping box.

BTW, I do remember someone saying that they felt the 281's lacking somewhat in midrange reproduction. Not having heard them yet I'll have to take that at face value for now.

Martice,

I'm not sure if you're aware, but James likes to take things to extremes, so high output is a requirement. Have you ever seen his "Big Pig" subs? Good thing he's single!

Brian

 

[Martice]

"Well I guess we cannot compare the Kit281 to the AV1 because they are too different. But we both agree that this speaker is not suitable for high SPL purposes."

I agree but in real world family type situations I would have no problem recommending this speaker. Especially the dual 5"inch driver AV1+ version.

"I favor the Kit281s to three towers I have owned, Image 4ts

uses two 5.25" midwoofers, Paradigm Monitor 7s uses 6.5" midwoofers and the PSB Stratus Bronze, a 2.5 way design with 6.5" drivers."

Understandably so. However the general comparison is between the Kit281's and the Paradigm Ref 100's and PSB Goldi's as well as any other "full range" speaker in this class.

Enjoy the music and movies.

 

[Michael R Price]

The Kit281 IMO has great midrange quality. But I can understand how it wouldn't be as 'silky smooth' as other speakers using smaller, more dedicated midrange drivers. Looking at the Adire web page, the AV8 starts to break up above 1 KHz (sort of) and it's pretty bad above 2 KHz. But they did compensate for that in the 281's crossover, I bet. And to be honest, you'll probably be compressing and distorting the AV1s at reference level even set to small. If you don't listen near reference level they're a great choice. Not designed for output, but a great speaker otherwise.

 

[Martice]

If you don't listen near reference level they're a great choice. Not designed for output, but a great speaker otherwise.

I totally agree. However, that's why I purchased the AV1+ for that extra punch and slightly higher SPL handling ability.