GR AV1 loud enough

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by AlexKunec, May 5, 2002.

  1. AlexKunec

    AlexKunec Stunt Coordinator

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    I plan on building some AV1s from Gr Research for music and HT. I like to listen to music at fairly high volumes. I have a moderately sized room, with a Yamaha 85wX5 receiver and shiva subwoofer. Would the AV1s put out enough or would I probably be overpowering them?

    They seem kinda small and I already blew the VC on similar sized speakers (Cheap prebuilt ones).
     
  2. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Hi Alex. I would then purchase the AV1+ speakers. Instead of one 5 inch woofer it comes with two. To give you more to chew on, I took a chance by selling my PSB Goldi's and purchased these UNHEARD. I wouldn't recommend this strategy as we all know how picky we can be over our speakers but I'll tell you this, in terms of mid range clarity, detail, and sound stage, I don't miss them. I strongly recommend that you have a quality sub that's capable of keeping up with the AV1+'s in terms of pace and speed.
    My room is 11x17x8 (not the biggest room) but Brian Bunge of Rutledge Audio Design has the smaller AV1's in a larger room than mine. He's also the one who built my cabinets on the link by my signature.
    Good Luck
     
  3. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    To add to Martice's comments concerning the AV-1's, I was getting 102-103dB peaks in the Pod Race scene from TPM with all speakers set to small (100Hz fixed with my receiver) in my 15.5' x 18' room with 16' cathedral ceiling. The room is also completely open to the rest of my house. I did not notice any stress or strain at all and my receiver is rated at 100W x 5.
    The only way you'd be overpowering them is if you completely disregard the sound of a speaker that's being pushed to it's limits. If the speakers sound strained, you should turn the volume knob counter-clockwise a bit! [​IMG]
    Brian
     
  4. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    Brian I am sure you know this but you won't get 103dbs your subwoofer off, not even close.

    Also I would consider 103db peaks extremely quiet for that scene.

    I like my peaks in some heavy sound effect action type movies to get up to around ~113dbs..just enough to make you

    jump a little bit when something happens.

    This is a calibrated system with a phantom center, I adjust the volume to around 80dbs for dialogue and the

    DVD does the rest.

    Alex, your 85x5 Yamaha could'nt overpower any speaker that I know of. You probably clipped the hell out of it.

    Sounds to me like you need a nice 2 channel amp for your front speakers that is around 200wpc.

    And if you want a clean loud speaker that you will have a hard time blowing then I suggest you take a long hard look at the Kit281s from Adire.

    I highly doubt you would be happy with any 5.25" midrange based speaker.

    Even crossing them at 100Hz I know they would be working like crazy at high volumes..hard work = distortion.

    A 5.25" driver is a midrange driver , its not big enough to handle everything.

    IMO 6.5" is the smallest driver that should be used for midwoofer duties.

    The Kit281s AV8s are 8" drivers but the actual cone and surround measure 7", this driver barely works at high volumes and it also sounds good at low volumes.

    With the Kit281s set to small (100Hz), and a dual Tempest subwoofer I can almost get to 115dbs for regular music playback. But they cannot handle alot of this.

    They sound really good and can go all day at around 105dbs.

    If you are looking for volumes higher than this then you would have to get a high power, high efficiency speaker that is 98dbs+.
     
  5. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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  6. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    James,

    Yes, I know I'd not get anywhere near 103dB's with the subs off. Also, keep in mind that my room is basically my entire 1700-1800 square foot house. It's built on a 6" concrete slab on top of Georgia red clay (in other words several feet thick of concrete like substance!).

    I'm also not trying to reproduce concert like sound and haven't heard an 8" driver that produces the midrange quality of a great 5.25" driver. Of course, I've not heard the Kit281's either. But it's my understanding that their biggest weakness (if there is one) is in the vocal range. That's why I'm using AV1's and will cross them over to my dual 12's and then cross them over to the Blueprint 1803.

    Brian
     
  7. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    Yeah I guess its all about tradeoffs, no speaker is going to give you everything that you want.

    I am not sure where people come up with the idea that the Kit281s lacking midrange ability.

    IMO:

    Instruments and vocals in the midrange area sound sweet and creamy , also the words drippy and silky come to mind. The midrange area is full and

    satisfying.

    To me alot of speakers that use small mids can sound fake,

    almost tinny.

    The Kit281s really excel at Jazz intruments and dynamic music like classical and techno/house.

    Freq range of these instruments:

    Instrument Frequency range Hz

    Piano (concert) 27.50 - 4,186.00

    Bass Tuba 43.65 - 349.23

    Double Bass 41.20 - 246.94

    Cello 65.41 - 987.77

    Viola 130.81 -1,174.00

    Violin 196.00 - 3,136.00

    Clarinet 164.81 - 1,567.00

    Flute 261.63 - 3,349.30

    French horn 110.00 - 880.00

    Trombone 82.41 - 493.88

    Trumpet 164.81 - 987.77

    Guitar 82.41 - 880.00

    Human voice range:

    Type of voice Frequency range Hz

    Bass 87.31 - 349.23

    Baritone 98.00 - 392.00

    Tenor 130 - 493.88

    Contralto 130.81 - 698.46

    Soprano 246.94 - 1,174.70

    I don't know for sure but looking at these charts it seems to me that MOST material is below 1000hz.

    Now isn't the midrange more around 700-5000Hz?

    You be the judge would you rather have 1000Hz and

    down covered very well or would you rather have 1000Hz-5000Hz covered well?

    IMO 1000Hz on down is the most important.

    the AV8s handle everything below 1000hz like champs

    and do well up to 2000Hz very good as well.

    The F1 tweeter takes over at 2khz and does a fine job.

    They extend down to 20Hz in my room and have usable output at 25Hz, no 5.25" driver can do that.
     
  8. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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  9. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    I don't know how loud you need to get but the AV1's are plenty loud for me. I'm currently using a Yamaha RXV620 100x5 receiver and it's more than enough for my normal listening levels.

    If you're looking for concert levels 100-110dB, you shouldn't be looking at bookshelf speakers. You need much larger are more efficient speakers.

    But just remember that constant exposure to these levels for more than an hour will surely cause permanent hearing damage.

    That's stinkn LOUD! I cant even imagine listening at that level in my home. In a concert hall yes, but in my home... NO WAY! I played TPM THX intro in my HT when I finished my Tempest sub and measured 108dB with my sub HOT by about 4dB (this was -20 on my receiver and I call it my false reference: 71dB with VE for mids and 75dB for sub).

    Don't know how loud my MB1's and AV1's got but I heard no strain at all from them.
     
  10. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    I think you answered your own question.

    Well I guess we cannot compare the Kit281 to the AV1 because they are too different.

    But we both agree that this speaker is not suitable for high SPL purposes.

    I favor the Kit281s to three towers I have owned, Image 4ts

    uses two 5.25" midwoofers, Paradigm Monitor 7s uses 6.5" midwoofers and the PSB Stratus Bronze, a 2.5 way design with 6.5" drivers.

    Of those three the Stratus Bronze were by far the best and the Image 4ts were the worst.

    It really is a matter of taste I guess, just like some people prefer boomy bass to realistic tight bass which can sound thin to the untrained ear.
     
  11. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    James,

    Yes, it's all about tradeoffs. I'd love to find someone locally that has a pair of 281's so I could compare them to my AV-1's and eventually to the AV-1+'s sitting in their shipping box.

    BTW, I do remember someone saying that they felt the 281's lacking somewhat in midrange reproduction. Not having heard them yet I'll have to take that at face value for now.

    Martice,

    I'm not sure if you're aware, but James likes to take things to extremes, so high output is a requirement. Have you ever seen his "Big Pig" subs? Good thing he's single!

    Brian
     
  12. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    "Well I guess we cannot compare the Kit281 to the AV1 because they are too different. But we both agree that this speaker is not suitable for high SPL purposes."

    I agree but in real world family type situations I would have no problem recommending this speaker. Especially the dual 5"inch driver AV1+ version.

    "I favor the Kit281s to three towers I have owned, Image 4ts

    uses two 5.25" midwoofers, Paradigm Monitor 7s uses 6.5" midwoofers and the PSB Stratus Bronze, a 2.5 way design with 6.5" drivers."

    Understandably so. However the general comparison is between the Kit281's and the Paradigm Ref 100's and PSB Goldi's as well as any other "full range" speaker in this class.

    Enjoy the music and movies.
     
  13. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    The Kit281 IMO has great midrange quality. But I can understand how it wouldn't be as 'silky smooth' as other speakers using smaller, more dedicated midrange drivers. Looking at the Adire web page, the AV8 starts to break up above 1 KHz (sort of) and it's pretty bad above 2 KHz. But they did compensate for that in the 281's crossover, I bet. And to be honest, you'll probably be compressing and distorting the AV1s at reference level even set to small. If you don't listen near reference level they're a great choice. Not designed for output, but a great speaker otherwise.
     
  14. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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