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Got the lex mc-1 / getting rid of denon 4802 (1 Viewer)

Randy G

Second Unit
Joined
May 18, 2000
Messages
460
Shawn,
Thanks again for the adobe info..you have no idea how great it is to finally be able to look at pdf info.
So was I incorrect about Philip holding back a little bit on the Panorama calibration technique? I could have sworn...
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
John,

"I would like to try bass enhance but the 2.4s only go to 60 hz. "

Give it a shot with what you have. They might go deep enough to give you a sense of what Bass Enhance can do. When I first started playing with it it was with just my side Sapphires. They went deep enough for it to work on music but I didn't like running them at movie levels with that low a crossover point. You could try it using the 2.9s up front too as they probably go deep enough as well. How well Bass Enhance works will vary by the recording.

When you configure your system for Bass Enhance the side speakers (or subs) will also be reproducing quite a bit of bass in movies. I don't know those Sony subs but if they aren't all that great you may be limiting yourself by purchasing them.

What do you drive your SVS subs with?

If it is a two channel amp as another option you might consider picking up an external crossover and using the SVS subs as side subs.

With it you would turn SUB OFF, set sides LARGE and then use the external crossover to split the bass between your side speakers and your subs. Assuming you have your SVSs next to each other now you will loose about 3dB of total output but you will be able to take full advantage of Bass Enhance.

Randy,

So I guess it worked then? Glad I could help.

"So was I incorrect about Philip holding back a little bit on the Panorama calibration technique?"

I don't recall him ever saying anything like that. Stuart was holding back on some technique to set the center distance, similiar to what I posted above. I believe he is waiting for it to be published in a tips manual or something like that.

Shawn
 

John Tompkins

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
658
Shawn,

Im using an samson s1000 500X2 right now. I could get a crossover and put the svs's to the side, I didnt think about that. But if I do that where will the lfe be redirected too ? the 2.9s go to at least 30hz or so before rolling off.

Also wouldnt this create bass cancelation problems?
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
John,

" I didnt think about that. But if I do that where will the lfe be redirected too ?"

It will either go to the L/R or the speakers set as LARGE. I can't recall and I'm not sure I ever tested this since I had three subs.

You can try it with AVIA. Turn off the sub out and play a LFE test track and find out which speakers reproduce it.

If it goes to the fronts you can run the external crossover off them (set to large) and still take advantage of Bass Enhance.

"Also wouldnt this create bass cancelation problems?"

Depends upon the room and the setup. Above 40hz it is no different then what you are doing now (on main channel bass) having sides set to 40hz. That is the potential downside. The upside is Bass Enhance... assuming you even like what it does for you, not everyone does.

Shawn
 

Randy G

Second Unit
Joined
May 18, 2000
Messages
460
Ooops(apologies to Phil),
Now I remember that it was indeed Stuart referring to the center distance calibration. Thanks for the clarification.
 

John Tompkins

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
658
So if I set the lfe to no and my mains to 40hz and sides to full-{with svs subs/crossover attached}- Bass enhance would probably send all bass including lfe to my mains down to 40 hz ? and the rest to the sides marked as large ?

Also do the rear speakers have to be set to large to get the bass enhance to work ? as this just wont be possible. Or can you leave the rears set to small. Thanks for any possible answers!
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
John,

"So if I set the lfe to no and my mains to 40hz and sides to full-{with svs subs/crossover attached}- Bass enhance would probably send all bass including lfe to my mains down to 40 hz ? and the rest to the sides marked as large ? "

Bass Enhance won't change the bass routing. Where the LFE goes will be up to the bass management in the MC-1. I'm not sure where it will go as I don't think I ever tried that configuration. You can easily test it with Avia though and see. Since I no longer have a MC-1 I can't answer this for you. If you test it let me know what happens.

"Also do the rear speakers have to be set to large to get the bass enhance to work ?"

No, they can be set small and have bass enhance work for you.

Shawn
 

John Tompkins

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
658
Thanks Shawn,

I just read Phillip Brandes faq sheet about BE and it says that when using two subs for bass enhance and setting lfe to none, that although LF will be rerouted to the sides that you would lose the lfe channel in 5.1 recordings.

I would have thought that the lfe from the lfe channel in 5.1 recordings would be rerouted to other speakers, but the way its stated in the fact sheet doesn't appear to support this..oh well looks like 3 subs is a minumun for BE

On second thought maybe I am interpreting Phillips faq sheet incorrectly. When he says you will lose the LFE channel, maybe he just means the actual CHANNEL but that all the bass that would have been on the lfe channel is rerouted.

The other downsides to two subs would be the inability to set sub independently and also no sub for two channel listening.
 

Shawn Fogg

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Messages
223
John,

"When he says you will lose the LFE channel, maybe he just means the actual CHANNEL but that all the bass that would have been on the lfe channel is rerouted. "

Thats what I believe occurs. I just don't know exactly where it re-routes the LFE.

"The other downsides to two subs would be the inability to set sub independently and also no sub for two channel listening. "

Those are both true too. Though instead of running subs off the sides your could run them off the L/R to keep the subs for 2 channel listening. Space the subs widely and bass enhance will still work.

Its basically all these questions and reasons why Lexicon added L/R and LFE sub outputs on the MC-12. It makes integrating Bass Enhance into the system quite a bit easier.

Shawn
 

Ricky T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 28, 1999
Messages
921
John/Shawn,

Phillip told me in another thread that his fact sheet was written before the correct Lexicon info was available. With sub to none, the LFE would be sent to speakers designated Large, which would be the sides.

I already tried integrating my subs with sides as Large speakers (using an external crossover). So they retained the LFE, but the Bass Enhance with full-range sides didn't do much for me. So I'm back to sides at 80hz (and have BE on anyway), and subs as subs @ 80hz.
 

Ricky T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 28, 1999
Messages
921
John,

I have 1.5 sides (using, 80hz) and superzero rears (using 120hz). It's good to set the highpass crossover 20-30hz above the speakers' -3dB point. Superzeros are spec'd to ~ 20k hz, so you can definitely set them igher than 5.8k for the rolloff.
 

John Tompkins

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
658
Ricky,

When you said you tried sides as large and lfe to none that you really didnt like it. Was it to much bass or room cancelation problems ? what didnt you like about the effect.

Also you said your using bass enhance anyway with a 80 hz crossover for the sides, how is this working out and are you losing any bass by doing this ?

I have the superzeros in the back set to 120 hz right now. I just felt that a lower rolloff in the music effects for music only sounded a little better, but I'm still experimenting.
 

Tom Grooms

Second Unit
Joined
Jul 17, 2000
Messages
273
Are you telling me the Lexicon applies Bass management to the LFE channel?
Every pre/pro or receiver I have ever seen sends the LFE to the sub unless you dont have a sub.
Why would a pre/pro high pass LFE information?
I have a good understanding about Bass Management. My questions only apply to the LFE channel.
This cant be right, I must be missing something....
 

Ricky T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 28, 1999
Messages
921
John,

I set Sides to Large with BE to ON, but sub to NONE (not LFE to none, as the LFE was redirected to the sides). Basically, I didn't notice much, if any improvement, from BE...if anything, maybe a little less bass. Not even room can benefit fully from BE. And I like having the Sub channel ON for increased flexibility.

I also don't notice much with BE and the sides at 80hz...probably because most on the BE benefits are meant to be under 80hz. Keep in mind, my subs are placed as end tables, so remained in the same relative position.
 

Ricky T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 28, 1999
Messages
921
Tom,

The Lexicon gives you three lowpass choices for the sub channel: 40, 80, or 120hz. Since the LFE goes up to 120hz, if you lowpass the sub at 40 or 80hz, then the processor will send the "remaining" LFE to the mains (so you don't lose anything). Since I have my sub at 80hz, the LFE between 80-120 is reproduced by my mains.
 

Will Gatlin Jr

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
201
John...
You are correct. I run all ny spks as large, with my double centre at 120hz.
In a properly set-up 7.1/Bass Enhanced system (for the "MAX" amount of "BE"), all spks should be set at large with the centre at 120hz. The bass from the centre is routed to the side spks.
Ricky...
Remember we went through the 80hz (1 1/2 yrs ago) setting, and was hopeing that pre-pro's/receiver would give us a lower setting at 40Hz, and they did. This is what Lexicon has given us.
I do not believe in routeing the LFE to the front spks. This hookup was not the way the director invisioned it. LFE is for a seperate sub(s). Nobody's front spks can do the job of a very good dedicated sub. Bass from a movie soundtrack has enough info for the front spks. Now certain people want to go and cloud the process with the LFE. I just don't understand!!
 

John Tompkins

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 30, 2000
Messages
658
OK, if I took Shawns suggestion and moved the two svs subs to the front hooked up with the 2.9 and a external crossver set at around 50-60 hz with one sub at each side of the 2.9s and set the lex to no sub, front to large, center sides and rears to small and turn on BE.

Would I get the benifits of BE ? what would be the downside if any ? it seems like this would work great as BE would still split my bass but instead of sending to the sides it would sent to the front. I would also get to use the subs for any modes two channel and all. It wouldnt be too much for the 2.9s as they would be crossed at 60 hz or ??

Will, yes that would be the best solution, all speakers full range. But it isnt posible for me, superzeros in rear are only option, I can add subs to the side though. Im just trying to get by with two subs for now and thats why I wondered about the above configuration.
 

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