got my svs 20-39 today

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Michael_Hoard, Sep 6, 2002.

  1. Michael_Hoard

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    My first reaction was; they sent me the 16-46 by accident, this is way to big, then I measured it I realized I got the right one. I think it is going to be too big for the room in my frat house.
    So far I am not that happy with the sound. It is loud, but I don't think it is that musical. Maybe it just has to break in some, I don't know. It just does not seem to have the kick in the kick drums that I hear and feel with the 12" image dynamics idq's in my truck.
    I am going to give it a few days and see if I warm up to it, if not, it is going back. I am thinking about getting another idq and building a box for it to stick in my house.
    kick back,
    Big Mike
     
  2. KirkA

    KirkA Agent

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    I'll be watching the "B" stock for it.[​IMG]
     
  3. Wendell

    Wendell Stunt Coordinator

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    is it a pc+?
     
  4. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    What IDQ drivers are you using and what type of enclosure are they in (the more specific you can be here the better)? What type of truck cab?

    Keep in mind that your car stereo has significantly less space to fill. Run some speaker wire into your truck cab and put the svs in there. Play it in there and then see what you think (in a space that small I'd imagine it would be somewhat overwhelming).

    Next, in all likely hood, your car stereo in really emphasizing the 30-60hz range of bass which is what is providing that kick you like so much (sounds fun, but not terribly accurate). While the SVS has rather flat and accurate response.

    You need some really potent woofing to get the same kind of kick you can get in a car in a medium to large sized room.
     
  5. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Hi Michael,

    As mentioned by dB,the more details...the easier it will be for folks to make some possible suggestions to optimize the subwoofer into your room/system.

    We can start with the room size, placement of the sub in the room, calibration methods, receiver and speakers used, and the source material you feel the subwoofer performs most poor with. Also---is it a 20-39cs matched with your own amp,a 20-39cs matched with a S700,or a 20-39PCi?(The PC+ won't begin shipping for a few days).

    TV
     
  6. Michael_Hoard

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    ok, first of all you guys are way to defense of sv subs. Second after realizing that the sub setting on my reciever was at +10 dB, and after listening to it for a while and possibly so breaking in, I am really warming up to the sound.
    Dustin, IDQ is the driver, and the enclosure is costum made by me. You can check out pictures at http://members.sounddomain.com/redmuff I am not going to try to fit the svs in my truck. I have however had the idq's in my house and they still had a very tight kickdrum sound. I think maybe the word I was looking for before was tight instead of kick. The enclosure is sealed and I think that is what makes the difference. The problem I have is that there is not enough volume in my cab to hear the really really low notes, you sure can feel them though.
    But back to the svs, I failed to mention before that it is a PCi, it is in a corner, behind a wooden rack.
    The only problem I really have with it now is that it is too damn big and it has a little different sound than my paradigms so it does not blend real great, but it is not bad. Overall, I have gotten use to the different sound and really like it, I am about 75% sure I am going to keep it. Sorry about the length.
    Big Mike
     
  7. Adam Bluhm

    Adam Bluhm Supporting Actor

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  8. Ted P.

    Ted P. Auditioning

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    Michael, I'm suprised that the SVS is not blending well with your Paradigms. What model Paradigm's do you have? I run the Studio 60's with the SVS 20-39 PCi through a Denon AVR 3300 with speakers set to small and sub only for bass management. I am more than satisfied with the sound for both music and movies.

    Regards,

    Ted
     
  9. Richard Travale

    Richard Travale Producer

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    Michael, you have calibrated with V.E or Avia and an SPL meter right?
     
  10. Manny_S

    Manny_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Try it with some movies and see how you like it compared to music. Let us know.
     
  11. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Micheal, I know IDQ is a driver. I wanted to know which model of IDQ driver (so I could look up the T/S of the correct one) you were using and the specifics on the enclosure (net volume, type [now know sealed] and density of stuffing if any) as well as how much power you were feeding them. Then I wanted to know if you have a huge ass extended cab or suburban or as I see from the pictures a normal extended cab.

    From the site you linked to and some web searching, I'm guessing a Q around 0.6 for that install. Pretty sweet. 150W to each sub as well, plenty of power. I'm not familiar enough with how subs act in small truck cabs though to hazard a guess as to how the cabin gain is affecting the response in your truck.

    I was gonna use this information to get an idea of what kind of bass you were used to in your car. Now I have a decent idea. You are used to some very nice tight bass in a very small enclosed area.

    Just making a sub sealed won't make it sound better necessarily. If the enclosure is to small the resulting high Q will make it sound like a one note wonder (I thought this might be what you had, but obviously not). On the same token a well implemented bass reflex can sound very close to, if not as good as a well done sealed sub. IMO the SVS is a well implemented bass reflex design.

    We also now know that you have the 20-39PCi and it is corner loaded. But we would also like to know how big the room is and the specifics on how you have it hooked up (what processor/receiver, line level or speaker level, all speakers small or some still larger, etc).

    Then we are in a position to make some more meaningful suggestions. Besides possibly making some changes to the hook up, it will be tough for a single SVS PCi sub to compete with the impact a pair of good quality 12" subs in a low Q sealed enclosure in a small truck cab can achieve. The effect of the small space is what I think you feel is missing with the SVS.
     
  12. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Hi Michael,
    Sorry if I came off defensive.
    The subjective preference for a subwoofer that would be rolling off high up in the midbass range isn't uncommon. Your car sub would probably have a Fs of what--maybe 45-55hz? At this point it would begin rolling off at 12dB/octave. The 20-39PCi is relatively flat to 20hz. Think about that for a second..[​IMG] Since most rock *kick* drumming is >45hz...
    1)the car subwoofer's 20hz output will be so severely rolled off that the 20hz output could be 10-12dBs(or more) less than the 60hz output(for example). So the kick drumming will be more pronounced and seem to have a much *tighter* pitch to it because there will be very little bass
     
  13. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I've found 4 different IDQ 12" models. Two versions of a single and dual voice coil. But all have an Fs between 19 and 20hz. The version two models also have a Qts around 0.26, their Vas is around 150L and they have a p-p linear Vd of 1.4L (the version one have much higher vas, 0.3Qts and less Xmax). If I guessed the size of his box right his car sub has a Q around 0.6.

    One other thing I forgot to mention Micheal is that you can have any frequency of bass in any size room. If you couldn't, headphones wouldn't work too well. It's just the smaller the room the more of a boost the lower frequencies get and the higher in frequency the boost starts to occur.
     
  14. Steve K.H.

    Steve K.H. Supporting Actor

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    I have the 20 - 39 PCi as well with Paradigms, Monitor 11's for the front soundstage. The 11's are working on a L/R +LFE setup, large, cross at 60Hz.
    The suggestion in the box was to start the amp between 1/2 and 3/4 (that would be like 1:30 on the clock). [​IMG]
    Initially, I ran with that. I think it was the fact I was so impressed with the ability of the SVS, that I left it there for a week. Reality set in however, and I've dialed it back to about 12:45. From there, I listen (depending on the source media) between -1dB to as high as +3 dB off the amp.
    The blending is fantastic. I've become accustomed to it. After doing a complete 180 on the locations of all items in the HT room (no small feat!), I've finalized the sub location at approximately 1/5 the way towards the listening area from the back wall, on the right side.
    In 2 channel (plus sub) for music, it's brilliant. In 5/6/7.1, others marvel at how there is no localization on the sub that we see with others. At times it sounds like the bass is projecting from the center, behind, to the left, or where the sub is, but really, it is never pinpointed, unless the feed supplements another channel.
    Play with it, don't be crazy to dial up the Gain. Back it off, and move the sub around. Experiment with location, in all areas. Think different (I did, thus the complete 180 of the room).
    Good luck with it.
     
  15. Jon_Liu

    Jon_Liu Stunt Coordinator

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    Odd, I set my dail to 12:00 originally, realizing that this setting was waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too loud. My LFE channel was set to 0 db. And I remember thinking, okay if halfway is too loud, I'm worried on what anything higher might do to my house! I finally got it set to 1/4th the dail and my LFE level at +5 dbs. I figure I'm not gonna fiddle too much with these settings because 1/4th and +5 are easy numbers to remember for references.
     
  16. Chris James

    Chris James Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Jon. From my understanding (most likely wrong however), is that it is preferable to have the amp gain set higher and the sub output level lower. Basically, put the amp at 3/4 like SVS recommends, then calibrate via the sub output (it's ok to have it at -5 dbs). Something about the signal from the sub out being cleaner when set lower. Maybe someone else that knows what they are talking about could help me explain.
     
  17. Jon_Liu

    Jon_Liu Stunt Coordinator

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    yeah, you're probably right, I was just so eager yesterday that I got it to the right setting that I figured I would just keep it like that until I wanted to tinker with it some more, possibly today or something. We'll see, chances are I won't be able to tell the difference... but that's just me. I'll probably post back saying whether or not I can tell the difference. Thanks for your info Chris!

    Regards,
    Jon
     
  18. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Also remember the gain control is not an indication of how much of the amps power is being used. It is possible to have the gain at 1/4 and push the amp into clipping if the input signal is high enough.
     
  19. Steve K.H.

    Steve K.H. Supporting Actor

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    Like the beginning of Blade II !!!
     
  20. Leif Wall

    Leif Wall Second Unit

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    150 watts to each IDQ? That seems way low to me. I have some IDQ 6.5" midbasses in my doors of my truck and I give them 165 watts continuous each.

    Compaing car to home is like apples to oranges. I have 2 JL 15w3s in my truck. (89 Ranger ext. cab) So when listening to my SVS (20-39cs), it isn't as 'exciting' for most music. I have noticed that the SVS really does well with bass guitars. Especially on the Opeth album 'Blackwater Park'. Or even 'Say it Ain't So' on the first Weezer album.

    It blows me away on movies though. Lord of the Rings kicked insane amounts of ass. Can't wait to add another SVS. Room placement is also critical. After rearranging my room when i got my widescreen, I was finally able to place it in a corner. I now get output down to 20 hz, before I completely dropped off at 30 hz.
     

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