Got my Onkyo 700 and now it has to go back

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Christopher Vagts, May 16, 2002.

  1. Christopher Vagts

    Christopher Vagts Auditioning

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    Anyone know why Onkyo is recalling the first shipment of their 700s? I just got it wired up and received a call to send it back......
     
  2. Norman L

    Norman L Second Unit

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    I would buy another brand, the 700 tested at 38watts with 5 channels running. The power supply is to week.

    Check out HK or Denon. Use your Amex if it is gold or platium and buy a Denon at an authorized dealer and price match with the unauthorized sites that list it at $528 and AX will send you a check. Check Yahoo shopping for receivers, only for a price match.

    Good Luck
     
  3. Christopher Vagts

    Christopher Vagts Auditioning

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    I wasn't going to box it up before cranking it up, after all, I had everything connected. It sounded terrific - the unit is in the theatre in the basement - woke my wife up on the second floor.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Chris A H

    Chris A H Stunt Coordinator

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    Norman,

    How do you know the power supply tested out at 38 watts running 5 channels?

    Chris
     
  5. Paul_Fisher

    Paul_Fisher Screenwriter

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    I think its from a Sound & Vision test.
     
  6. Norman L

    Norman L Second Unit

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    Chris,

    The 700 was checked for watts running all channels by the ONKYO Candian distributer. Their chief technical person did the test on the 600 and the 700. I also paid for a test on the 600 at an authorized lab in NJ.
     
  7. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    Norman-

    What did the sr600 do at 5 or 6 channels driven?

    Since when is 100x6 not a lie when it really does 35x5? Time for new measurement standards.
     
  8. Norman L

    Norman L Second Unit

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    Ned,
    You are 100% correct. New standards are needed.
    The 600 tested with 5 channels in the NJ lab at 16.5 volts or 34Watts. In the Canadian lab with 5 channels running it tested at 30watts. The Canadian lab was the lab of the Onkyo Canadian distributer.
    Check this link:
    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Holl...1/ratevsac.htm
     
  9. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    I was ready to buy the SR600 but having seen it's true power capability I wouldn't take it free. I already have an older Pioneer VSX-D409 but it does a good job and I seriously doubt that it performs this poorly. Onkyo should be ashamed.
     
  10. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

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    It's a shame that so many folks are buying into this notion that more and more channels of amplified power are going to be delivered without MAJOR compromises. Not a knock on Onkyo, Yammy, Marantz or whomever but H/K is the only major name out there that delivers ALL ACROSS THE MODEL RANGE. They purposely leave out the 'new' amplified channels but give you the decoding. They know what it takes to deliver reference power to all channels driven. To me, it's just a more honest approach. You don't get something for nothing.
     
  11. Greer_R

    Greer_R Agent

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    you got your 700 already????? who did you order from? I have my 700 on order but haven't seen one yet.

    -Greer
     
  12. Christopher Vagts

    Christopher Vagts Auditioning

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    I saw it in stock at Onecall and figured I better snap it up quick. They are out of stock now because they were called by the manufacturer to ship them all back. I don't know what was wrong with it.....

    I did get to play and instead of waiting ordered the 600 instead.
     
  13. Tim_Speicher

    Tim_Speicher Stunt Coordinator

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  14. Norman L

    Norman L Second Unit

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  15. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    It's a shame that so many folks are buying into this notion that more and more channels of amplified power are going to be delivered without MAJOR compromises
    The shame is that these companies are allowed to claim 6x100 without it actually being able to sustain that output with all 6 channels driven at once. I can accept if a receiver claims 5 or6 x 100 watts but only manages 70-80 watts/ch if you drive all 5 or 6 channels at once. 30-40 watts is just pathetic.
    The Onkyo TX-SR600's six internal power amplifiers feature high-current, low-impedance discrete output devices, and the receiver is capable of a continuous power output of 110 Watts per channel into a 6 ohm load. Onkyo's WRAT (Wide Range Amplifier Technology) gives the power stage a linear frequency response from 10 Hz to 100 kHz to handle the most demanding audio sources such as SACD and DVD-Audio. - Direct from Onkyo's site regarding the TX-SR600.
    High current? No 6x35 does not sound like high current to me. Sounds more like wimpy piece of junk with a power supply adequate for a 100x2 stereo receiver. IMO Onkyo blew the bank account on features and had nothing leftover where it matters, quality. Of course you could always use the pre-outs and run a real power amp, woops, no pre-outs [​IMG]
     
  16. Greer_R

    Greer_R Agent

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    actually we are posting on the 700 however, which DOES have pre-outs for everything Ned.

    -Greer
     
  17. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    Well everything said applies to both models except pre-outs. Buying the 700 with a plan to use a separate power amp is ridiculous IMO. Maybe you can't expect stellar performance but you should be able to expect at least competent performance. 30-38 watts/ch is nowhere in sight of that goal.
     
  18. elMalloc

    elMalloc Supporting Actor

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    I think the harman kardon is really the only receiver mentioned here that has "high current".

    Unfortunately I have an hk avr120, and I don't know if I like the bright sound. It's clean...but too bright, and I think one of the outputs (front right) has a very sharp horn compared to the front left (no matter what speaker I plug into it). It makes me sad then that I will have to upgrade to an HK AVR520 or something with component switching, just to get high wattage. I wanted the onkyo sr600 but afraid of the wattage marks considering I may buy some tower speakers down the line. I just don't appreciate the HK sound as much as I would like, in order to trust it when buying a component switching receiver.

    -ELmO
     
  19. Norman L

    Norman L Second Unit

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    ONYKO REPORT
    In 1998, 1999, 2000 Onkyo receivers had power supplies to output the rated watts to run all channels. In 2001 and 2002 the power supplies had been changed and the volts going into all channels are reduced which means much less watts.
    I had been using an ONKYO 727 (80 watts) for the past 8 to 10 years powering my B & W ( DM2000) speakers , which require a minimum of 50 watts to drive, and was happy with my receiver. I decide to upgrade from Prologic to 6.1 and bought the Onyko 600.
    I adjusted all channels with the pink noise based on Avia, (85db) and played at
    10db below. A few days after listing and enjoying I played a few DVD’s that have intense DTS or Dolby sound effects, my volume control was set at 10 db below reference of 85db. When the sound effects in the movie kicked in, the db’s raised 20 to 30 higher without me touching the volume control. My B & W speakers both blew by being clipped by the Onyko.
    At first I had no idea why, after talking to B & W, they explained what could happen if the receiver can’t deliver the watts need to drive a speaker when the source material is loud and strong. If the receiver’s volts to drive a speaker are lowered the speaker cannot move fast enough when the source material is loud and strong to cool itself. This would melt the wires or loosen the glue going to the voice coil. The speakers could not handle the drop in power when the source was loud and strong to drive the speakers.
    ??? But why were the volts lowered if the Onkyo 600 is rated at 80w x6???????
    I called Onkyo USA they insisted that the receivers output was 80x6, so I called the Onyko distributor in Canada and was connected to their chief technical engineer.
    He had a 500, 600 and 700 in his lab. I told him my story about the B & W speakers and he offered to test the 600 and the 700. His report to me was that the 600 tested at 26 or 27 volts – 2 channels or 81watts. But when set to 5-channel stereo the receiver drop the volts immediately to 30W. The 700 dropped to 38W. He also told me the power supply couldn’t handle 26 volts to all channels. I have our 30-minute conversation transcribed.
    I then brought my 600 to a NJ authorized technical repair lab to test the 600 and receive in writing a report on the output. The 600 running 2 channels tested at 26.5 volts or 81 watts. In 5-channel stereo the volts dropped to 16.5 or 34w per channel.
    The result is the POWER SUPPLY is not capable of giving the necessary volts to all amplifiers at the same time to maintain an 80 or even 65 watts.
    Previous models like the 555,575,575x, 777, and the high-end units like the 989, 797 have stronger power supplies to maintain their rated power. It appears that the 494, 595, 696, 500, 600, 700 have less powerful power supplies than in the past and should be a concern for some of you.
    If you believe you need headroom or use low efficient speakers and/or speaker with high minimum watts consider other manufactures. Also if you are happy with 30w to 38w enjoy your 600 or 700. My opinion is that is not what home theater is about.
    Laws should be changed to require consistent reporting of watts running 5 channels.
    Check out the link to Watts provided by Phil Iturralde
    This site when busy is not available, keep trying.
    Check out the Links on Clipping.
    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hol...01/ratevsac.htm
    http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/clipping.asp
    http://207.35.168.36/ofsoundmind/os...udiobasics.html
     
  20. Tim_Speicher

    Tim_Speicher Stunt Coordinator

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    So what recourse would an average joe have:
    if he purchased the SR600, thinking it did somewhere in the80-100 watts (as claimed). He then paired it up with some speakers that needed at least 50 watts, which resulted in the speakers blowing. Would Onkyo be held liable for such issues, seeing as they are misrepresenting their product?[​IMG]
     

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