Got my 57HX84. thoughts and questions about possible issues...

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Rolando, May 31, 2005.

  1. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    Wow this thing looks like a monster in my small apartment!

    Well I was happy to see it come but I think there might be few things wrong with it. It has been a couple of years since my Elite Pro-710 so I have not seen a big CRT RPTV HDTV in a while.

    First off I knew the picture WOULD NOT compare to a tube. that I knew from experience and did not expect the same sharpness and smoothness.

    However out of the box image looks faded. It almost looks out of focus yet at the same time everything seems to have "digital noise" like sharpness up too high. Mostly noticeable in writing like opening credits and such.

    then there is the problem of a line across the middle. Darn it now that I think about it I remember reading about this on CRT RPTVs but I thought it was on another brand. I did not remember this being an issue with Toshibas. The worst part is I only noticed it at night and on HD broadcast of desperate housewives. At first I thought (hoped) it was the show but for the rest of the night saw it every ones in a while on almost all shows even commercials. specially close ups of people's faces.

    So quite disappointing over all and I was beginning to suspect it had to do with the fact that when the delivery guys brought it to my place on the 3rd floor they at one point put the set on it's side AND even rested it that way while they caught their breath. I figured that might cause convergence problems but could it affect focus?

    I have tried different wires. both sets of component wires used are over $50. AAMOF one set was $300 Canadian. same thing. The player is a Malata N996 and seemed to be ok so far. Don't have another player handy to test if it's player related. However cable is an issue too so leads me to think it's the TV.

    Calibrating with DVE did not help much. don't get me wrong, it's not unwatchable. especially DVDs look pretty good. Though I seem to have same problem as my 34HFX84 in that blacks are a little washed out but turning down brightness brings about loss of detail in darkness. contrast seems impossible to find the sweet spot so have left it at 50 as it normally is on Movie mode. Also very red.

    here is where it gets weird. I got the set on Saturday and I could swear that the picture has improved. Last night watching fear factor and Miss Universe I could not find the line anymore. Now the first days I could never see it during the day only at night but last night I could not see it. At first I figured my basic calibration helped but putting the mode back to Movie (where I had it first 2 days) instead of Preference still no line. By the way even bringing sharpness down to 0 still showed "noise" or "edge" on the DVE test picture.

    could it be the player? or can TVs cause this "noise"? Also can that almost out of focus be a problem or just normal with a TV so big? what about image feeling almost washed out? is it because I just had a 34 inch tube? or should the image come at least a little closer?

    thanks in advance guys!
     
  2. Dick Boneske

    Dick Boneske Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a 57HX81--about three years old. It looked OK when new with DVD's, but not so good with Direct TV. Then, I put up an antenna and bought a Hughes HD Direct TV receiver and receive HD over the antenna and from Direct TV. This Toshiba is absolutely brilliant with a good video source. It can't make a bad source look good--neither can any of the others in spite of what they lead you to believe. If you don't have HD off an antenna or cable or Direct TV, do yourself a favor. Watching non-HD sources on this set is like playing 78 rpm record through a high-end audio system.

    Don't try to compare a small direct CRT TV with this kind of HDTV--they look good only because they are so small, like your computer monitor. At 8' and more, you can't help but being impressed with the picture your 57HX84 can deliver.
     
  3. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    You don't think that throwing a TV on a fork lift and then onto a truck for 1000's of miles won't affect its focus? Stuff moves ... stuff gets loose ... convergence and focus go out ...

    You are not going to find a magic bullet with just swapping out cables for really expensive ones.

    Toshibas are notorious for looking somewhat magenta/purple out of the box ... but they calibrate fine.

    Regards
     
  4. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    So Micheal, from experience, do you think most issues will be fixed with Calibration?

    I figured redness and black level/contract definately would but do you think focus will as well?

    what about the "line" accross the middle? Is that a calibration problem? An issue with Toshibas? A defect? or damage caused by transport?
     
  5. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Focus is a funny thing because we can't know what the state of your focus is based on words. We need to see it to know.

    The only thing that needs to be looked after from the warranty area is the ghost white line that runs down the center. I hear that they finally found a fix for it after 3 generations of sets.

    You will need to follow up on this ...

    The TV also will improve a bit as it breaks in ... (settle down)

    The red stuff and the contrast and brightness stuff is all grayscale / calibration related.

    Regards
     
  6. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    ghost line has me worried. so definately needs looking after right? it's not a settings thing. IIRC the manufactured date on my set is October 2004.

    Do you know if I should be asking for a date later than that to get a corrected model?

    I know my 34HFX84 had a manufactured dated of February 2005.

    Can the store check date without opening the box?
     
  7. Rob Michaw

    Rob Michaw Stunt Coordinator

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    Rolando -

    I don't know if thye have fixed the ghost line (raster ringing issue). I had it with my Tosh and it was returned almost 2 years after purchasing it...with many e-mails and phone calls with my store. I saw the line on all Toshiba sets at the time, and it got to the point where I was almost unable to watch because of it. At the time, there was nothing they could do with it...so I couldn't keep the set.

    Hope they fixed it for your sake. (The manager of the store I was dealing with said to me that he guessed only 5% of the people who bought the sets noticed...and only a fraction of those actually cared).
     
  8. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    wow rob, that is so wrong... what did you get finally?

    another interesting development occured. I could not see the ghost line until last night it was there and clear as day. It was on ABC HD. However not on the other HD channels. well not entirely true but not as obvious. I think I remember hearing that ABC is 720p as opposed to NBC and City TV (Canadian) which are 1080i. indeed when I switch between ABC and the others the screen goes black with wavy lines before I get a picture. however smooth transition from CBC to NBC to City TV.

    now I know the TV does not display 720p, it converst them all to 1080i. Could this conversion be creating or worsening the problem?

    can anyone tell me a DVD with a lot of white I can use to test if I can see the line there?
     
  9. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    A test disc with a 100% white ire frame.

    Or Matrix 2 in the white room.

    Regards
     
  10. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    Well, as some of you know I did the test and all seemed fine on my DVD player with white screen tests.

    Actually a tech came to my house for the ghost line through my 57HX84 found nothing. He used a generator on the front AV inputs.

    I told him maybe it's the colorstream inputs. My next theory of course was the 720p theory. I had noticed that the line was more prominenet on ABC HD and FOX HD and they happen to broadcast in 720. Well he saw it on those 2 channels and said it was likely a problem with my cable box.

    I asked him if we can test it because I want to be sure it's not the TV and I don't have another 720 source. He said he would see if he could get an HD generator.

    Well he called me later to say he confirmed with Toshiba Canada and this is their answer:

    well TV is made for 1080i so any other signal like 720p will cause errors such as this ghost line. Oh and there is nothing they can do. have a nice day!

    OMG!!!

    I was speechless. So I guess I will just ask for an exchange and be back to square one.

    heck at this point I might look at entry level plasma.

    Seriously, in tube I cannot find an equivalent to my 34HFX84, DLP and LCD I have seen in stores either exhibit SDE or SSE and way too much pixelation.

    Damn it I don't think I can go back to 34" after seeing the 57"... but all other CRT RPTV in it's range have silver casings. damnit PQ is priority but I just can't get myself to let one of those ugly things into my house.

    any recommendations?

    looking for the $2000 price range. DVD probably 75% (well 90% for me but the wife will be watching some digital cable and some HD) and MAYBE some XBox in the future. as a matter a fact probably 1% Xbox but I mention it because I want something fairly burn it proof.

    help me HTF, you're my only hope!
     
  11. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    Hi guys,

    Update.

    I have been fighting with my store and Toshiba rep because their initial stance was this is normal when receiving a 720p signal so no refunds and no exchanges as this is considered within Toshiba standards.

    I am currently dealing with a service "manager" whom I convinced to run more tests on my TV. First thing he did though was run a 720p signal on a 51HX84 he had at his location. He admited to seeing this line. next step however is to contact his tech manager or something.

    he claims he spoke to 2 others "high up" who claim no one has complained of this before.

    I seriously doubt it. But If it is the case that some complained in the US from what I see here but no one in Canada. What can I do?

    where can I get some info on this issue that I can "forward" to this guy who claims has never heard of it?

    thanks!
     
  12. John S

    John S Producer

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    Just be stark on the fact you are not happy with the display you purchased and want to try something else.


    I just can't believe any sort of retailer would make you live with a new display you don't like.


    On the 720p thing??? Do you game???

    Most HD sources can be set to output 1080i all the time no matter what it is recieving.
     
  13. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    yes the box can convert to 1080i and I tried it and it DID remove the line but that seems like a band aid solution. I might later have a device that would only do 720p and then what?

    heck I am not a gamer but I hear X-Box does 720p and I would obviously prefer that to 480 i or p if I were to get one.
     
  14. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Of course the TV does not do 720p native anyway. It upconverts to 1080i.

    It wouldn't be the first time that a company had a "poor scaler" on board. (Note that "poor" does not equal defective.)

    Keep fighting it ... you will have to visit other forums to research this issue.

    Regards
     
  15. Rolando

    Rolando Screenwriter

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    Hi Micheal, as always your input is very appreciated.

    Could it be as simple as a bad scaler? Or could a 720p input simply be emphasizing an existing proble?

    Because if it's just a problem of a bad scaler is it worth the fight? I mean what you are saying is that the cable box is doing a better job of scaling from 720p to 1080i than my $2500 TV?

    I guess still worth fighting since things like X-Box cannot scale to 1080i and I don't know what will come in the future with the same issue.

    thanks again!
     

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