Got 7.1 audio! Now what?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ryan Wright, Dec 11, 2002.

  1. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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    Hello,
    Those of you who lurk in the receivers section already know this: I went out and bought a HK AVR-525 the day before Thanksgiving. Being my first DD/DTS receiver, I didn't have a center, so I tried the center input feature of my Toshiba RPTV. Sound was tolerable, but the center was WAY too loud, even after adjusting dB gain/loss to their limits on all speakers.
    This really does belong in the software forum. Bare with me.
    Tonight, I purchased a new center to match my mains & surrounds. The center I wanted came with two more surrounds, which I didn't initially want, until I realized what I could do with them. [​IMG] Hooked them up as SBR & SBL and now I have a full 7.1 setup! Err, make that 7.0, because I don't yet have a subwoofer - my mains are full towers with quite a bit of bass. Still, they can't possibly compare, so in time SVS will get a large chunk of my hard earned cash. Anyway, getting to the point of this post:
    Now what?! I've configured the new speakers in, but I need movie suggestions! I dug through my 110 some odd disc collection, but didn't see much that supported 7.1. LOTR:EE had DTS-EX 6.1, however, so I watched about half an hour of that (didn't have time for more tonight). Man, it was beautiful... What else should I watch to really put this setup to the test? If I don't have it, I'll look up a review and see about buying it.
    Thank you!!
     
  2. Tom Oh

    Tom Oh Second Unit

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    There are no DVDs that support 7.1. You should really post on H/W forum to learn about differnt options and set-up. I wouldn't recommend using the TV's speaker as center or purchase a center speaker that comes with surround speakers. It sounds like what you really need to buy is rear center speaker. It does not sound like you are fully equipped to enjoy DTS 6.1 ES or DD 5.1 EX. BTW, there is a post with all DTS ES and DD EX encoded DVDs. Try searching.
    This topic should really be moved or closed.
    Update: My bad Ryan. I misunderstood your set-up. I thought you were using surrounds as 2 extra side speakers
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  3. AaronMK

    AaronMK Supporting Actor

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    Do a search for "ES" and "EX" in the thread subject using the forum's search tool. There are a couple threads with listings of official 6.1 DVDs.

    As far as I know, there are no DVDs with 7.1 discrete mixes. I think the DVD spec has something for SDDS and an MPEG 7.1 format, but I doubt we will see any discs with support for them.

    I'm not 6.1/7.1 capable, but I know that Gladiator and the DTS version of The Haunting have DTS-ES 6.1 discrete mixes. As far as matrixed back channels, Chicken Run has a DTS-ES 5.1 mix, and Star Wars Episodes I and II have official DD-EX 5.1 mixes.
     
  4. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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    Just did a quick search on your HK, It looks like a great unit. It will decode DD EX/DTS ES and also will do "Logic 7" 7.1 processing!

    It would be fun to compare EX/ES with 7.1 processing. Put in the Pod Race of Phantom Menace and play around by switching EX to Logic 7. Put in Toy Story 2 and play the Monster trailer and listen to the dog growl, it will be in the EX channel.

    There are many 5.1 DD and DTS discs that sound incredible with forced EX/Es processing so don't limit yourself with EX/ES releases.

    Remember there are no 7.1 releases it's just Processing!

    U571
    Tomb Raider
    SPR
    just to name a few!

    Wes
     
  5. Troy LaMont

    Troy LaMont Supporting Actor

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    Congrats on the setup, more channels=more auditory fun! [​IMG]
    Now I'd suggest you check this thread for software choices and like Wes pointed out, you can get some amazing extended surround processing from regular 5.1 mixes.
    Troy
     
  6. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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  7. gregstaten

    gregstaten Supporting Actor

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    Ryan - at the most basic level 7.1 processing simply means that the rear channel is played out through two rear speakers instead of one. That's the way it works in all THX Ultra 2 processors when doing basic DTS-ES or Dolby EX decoding. Indeed, if you read the THX Ultra 2 specs, they recommend placing the two rear speakers right next to one another on the wall (unless you have dipole speakers).

    Most 7.1 processors also offer additional processing modes that can create semi-discrete data for each of the two rear channels.

    -greg
     
  8. Grant B

    Grant B Producer

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    - DTS ES Discrete / Matrix 6.1

    (These DTS releases are also available in a Dolby Digital Variant, but I haven't listed them twice)

    E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial ( Matrix? )
    Minority Report ( Discrete )
    Austin Powers in Goldmember ( Discrete )
    Lord of the Rings ( 4-disc is Discrete, 2 disc is DD EX only )
    We Were Soldiers ( R3 Only, Matrix? )
    Blade 2 ( Discrete )
    Monsters Inc ( R2 Discrete )
    The Haunting ( Discrete )
    Seven SE ( Discrete )
    Bones ( R1, Discrete )
    Chicken Run ( Discrete )
    Mission to Mars ( German R2 Discrete )
    Rush Hour 2 ( Discrete except R4 Matrix? )
    Terminator 2 UE ( R2 Discrete, R1 Matrix? )
    Gladiator ( R1/R4 Discrete, R Matrix )
    The Mummy Returns (R4) / (R2)
    Hollow Man: Superbit ( R1 Discrete )
    Jurassic Park 3 ( Matrix )
    A.I ( R1 Matrix )
    Castaway ( Matrix )
    Angel Eyes (R3 Matrix )
    Atlantis ( R4 Matrix )
    Shrek ( Matrix )
    Pitch Black ( Matrix )
    Unbreakable ( Matrix )
    Bone Collector ( Matrix )
    The Legend of Baggar Vance ( Matrix )
    102 Dalmations ( Matrix )

    - Dolby Digital EX

    Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of the Clones
    Star Wars, Episode One
    Men in Black 2
    Toy Story 2
    The Perfect Storm
    The Fight Club
    The Art of War
    The World Is Not Enough
    Harry Potter & the Sorcerer's Stone
    Spy Kids
    The Terminator (Re-release only, original release is mono)
    Kiss the Dragon
    The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys
    The Astronauts Wife
    Austin Powers 2: The Spy Who Shagged Me
    The Messenger: The Joan of Arc Story
    The Exorcist - The Version You've Never Seen
    Help! I'm a Fish
    See Spot Run
    The Caveman's Valentine
    Say it isn't So
    Someone Like You
    Bats
    'R Xmas

    - Previously announced as EX encoded, but unconfirmed

    Calle 54
    The Man Who Cried

    - Titles mixed into DTS ES Discrete ( unless stated ), and NOT Dolby Digital EX on other DVD versions

    The Fifth Element (R2 German Matrix ) / (Superbit R1 Matrix?)
    Hannibal ( German/Spanish R2 )
    The Mask ( German R2 )
    Shanghai Noon ( German R2 )
    Sleepy Hollow ( German R2 )
    HighLander: Immortal Edition ( R1 )
    Maniac ( R1 )
    Bad Taste ( R1 )
    Evil Dead ( R1 ) + ( R2 ) re-releases
    The Beastmaster ( R1 )
    Opera ( R1 )
    The Stunt Man ( R1 )
    Suspiria ( R1 )
    Vigilante ( R1 )
    Can't Stop the Music ( R1 )
     
  9. Stewart Storrar

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    Ryan,
    I have a Denon 3801 and use a SBR and SBL...some of my favourite EX/ES discs are...
    Gladiator - I usually demo the opening battle - arrows flying everywere [​IMG]
    Se7en: Platinum Series
    The Haunting (dts)
    Star Wars: Episode 1 & 2
    Blade 2
    The Art of War
    The thread mentioned earlier is a great resource to see which titles actually have 5.1 EX/ES or 6.1 ES audio...
    Also as mentioned many standard 5.1 tracks benefit from processing, too many to mention !
     
  10. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Buy some DVDs with mono sound. [​IMG]
     
  11. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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    Thank you again for the additional replies & information! Can't wait to get home to really enjoy my new setup. Didn't have much time last night...
     
  12. KennethHiland

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    Grant

    Where did you get DTS ES6.1 Discrete on Minority Report.
    I have the R2 and it's clearly just 5.1 on my disc. I believe that it is the same soundtrack on the R1

    Kenneth
     
  13. Troy LaMont

    Troy LaMont Supporting Actor

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    Grant,
    You may have missed my post previous to yours, but there is a comprehensive R1 list here.
    Troy
     
  14. JosephMoore

    JosephMoore Stunt Coordinator

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    Minority Report isn't 6.1, just 5.1 (my receiver lights-up when it has to simulate/interpolate the rear channel) but it does send a significant amount of energy to the back channel anyhow. It sounds great.
     
  15. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Yup, Chicken Run has a DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 mix. The package is misleading.

    Dan
     
  16. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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    "Stewart Little 2" airplane parts is now my favorite EX demo and I don't think it's a EX mix!

    Wes
     
  17. Nick_Scott

    Nick_Scott Second Unit

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  18. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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  19. gregstaten

    gregstaten Supporting Actor

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    Nick - to the very best of my knowledge there is not a single DVD that includes a 7.1 sound mix. The only commercial (non-Imax) 7.1 channel system is the large SDDS system. That system has five channels behind the screen (Left, Left Center, Center, Right Center, Right), two surround channels (Left Surround, Right Surround), and a baby boom track.

    Part of the DVD-A (or possibly the multichannel SACD) spec discusses using the ".1" channel as a full bandwidth high channel which would be placed in the ceiling directly above the listening position. I'm fairly certain that there are no commerical releases mixed to this configuration, but I know there are some test discs that have songs in this format.

    Regarding WE WERE SOLDIERS, according to the SDDS website, the film was not released in SDDS 7.1 but only SDDS 5.1. So, it his highly likely that a 7.1 mix does not exist for that film.

    -greg
     
  20. Nick_Scott

    Nick_Scott Second Unit

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    Greg-
    Yes, they are in fact a few Dolby 7.1 mixes. I know of "We were Soldiers", and I think "Blade II". The 8th channel is the "ceiling channel".
    It is NOT a discrete channel, but matrixed into the rear surrounds, like the center-rear surround. It is not called 7.1, since that would be a confusing mess, so its called "Sonic Overhead Sound".
    Here is a link to a "ceiling" decoder for a theater
    Here is the news from the Dolby Website
    More news from Dolby
    So, the Dolby 5.1 mix sent to the theaters definetly included the extra 2 matrix channels (rear and ceiling), made from a REAL 8 channel master for DOLBY. (DTS also has an identical ceiling format, but I don't know if they mixed it that way).
    Anyway, my point was that people were saying the same mix was used for the DVD. People with homebrew 6.1 setups reported that they added the ceiling channel and sound was definetly coming through (like helicopter flyovers...etc).
    Sounds like good news to me, though its likely to confuse people who have the "other" kind of 7.1 setups (ie THX,L7, etc).
     

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