Goodbye 3802, Hello Elite (1 Viewer)

[Dalton]

David,
Thanks for the info! Interesting stuff. I love reading tech stuff. I have found the 45tx offers excellent surround decoding. I give it the edge on the Onkyo 797 in this category. As far as amp sections go, i thought the 797's was better. But now that i have added an external amp, that is a non factor. This thing rocks!

 

[MikeRP]

David!

Great post. I hate asking questions but here goes.

You said the Power supply is average for this price range. How does it compare to say the Denon 3802 or the HK 520 or Onkyo 797 or the new Onkyo 900? Are you dissappointed in it? Do you have statistics on the other receivers?

What about the capacitors - are they a good size for this price range? Do they offer a lot of reserve capacity? I can't tell by that rating.

What receiver's do you think the 45 really competes with? Sometimes I think the HK 520 525; Denon 3802 3803; Onkyo 800 but sometimes I think the processing power is up there with say the HK 8000. Is this an in betweener? Certainly not a flagship but good enough to compete in some areas with the other big guys?

What about the DAC's. Are they on 196/24 on all channels? Are these good chips? Same with the ADC's?

I noticed your comment about the processors. Why does the 45 or any receiver need two processors?

Whew!

I'm burning myself out.

If you answer half of these I'll be happy.

thanks

Mike

 

[Brae]

So, is someone suggesting that we 45TXers start looking for larger caps and a more robust power supply and play swap the components?

 

[Dalton]

So, is someone suggesting that we 45TXers start looking for larger caps and a more robust power supply and play swap the components?

Brae,
One thing i know for sure, when i added the Acurus 100x3 to my system there was a HUGE difference in soundstage. I have had several different setups over the last year and none have compared to this one. I couldn't be happier(for now:wink: ).

 

[DanielSmi]

The 45tx has 96/24 ADC's on the front 2 channels only which is the same as the 47tx while the 49tx has 96/24 on all channels. The 45tx uses 192/24 DAC's on all channels same as 47tx, while the 49tx has advanced 192/24 DAC's. I cant remember the difference between the two. The 45tx probably uses the first processor for decoding dd,dts, dts 96/24, etc, and uses the second chip for post processong such as the MCACC, THX, PLII, DTS Neo:6 this is the same as the 47tx. Where the 49tx has three chips, dual sharcs and a single motorola (same chip the 45tx uses) it uses the first sharc for decoding dts, etc, then uses the motorola for post processing, uses the final sharc for MCACC. You can find an Audio Block Diagram in the back of your manual pg. 104 for both the 47tx and 49tx. Another good place for info is the catalog that you cna order form Pioneer for free. It has alot of specs for all their Elite products it has some specs you can't get anywhere else not even the manuals. You can order one here: Catalog Request . Here are some other differences between the 49,47, and 45tx.
S/N ratio
49: 105dB
47: 105dB
45: 101dB
It seems the 45tx doesn't have an Phono input is that true not a big deal for me I wasn't around for record players.
Also I noticed last night that in the watts/ch spec that Pioneer doesn't say how many channels are driven so that might be why the watts/ch add up to more than the power supply watts because all channels weren't driven during testing.
Also the 45tx has a 75 ohm unbalanced and 300ohm balanced input for radio while the 49 and 47 only have a 75ohm unbalanced input. ( no big deal for I never listen to radio at home).
The 49 and47tx have 70dB S/N ratio for component input whch is pretty good while the 45tx has 65dB hwich is also good.
The component bandwidth is also the same 5Hz-40MHz, which all elite receivers have even the old 3xTX series.
The 47 and 49 have dual sub outputs while the 45 doesn not.
There are other differences I thought I'd list a few you can find all this info in their catalogs and it's free so you techy people might be interested.
Daniel Smith

 

[Brae]

Dalton, which exact model Acurus did you get? I went looking on Audiogon and almost every amp listed for Acurus was SOLD. That's not funny.

 

[Brae]

Daniel, are you referring to the Summer 2002 catalog? I was able to pick one of these up from one of the many shops I went into. This was also the shop that enlightened me about the shutdown conditino being a feature on ALL the Elite receivers.

 

[David Judah]

Mike,

I'm not disappointed with the amp section in the 45TX. Like I said it seems to be comparable with others in its price range from listening tests I've done(I haven't popped the hoods on the other receivers you mentioned). With any non-flagship receiver, the amp section is usually the weak point. I use a Sunfire Cinema Grand amp and will only use the receiver's two surround back channels when my speakers come in.

As far as the caps go, it would be nice if it had more, but hey, it is around a thousand, after all, so I wouldn't expect them to go crazy. Most of the dedicated amps I've seen usually have over 80,000 uF.

I've never heard of AKM. I actually thought they had Burr-Browns on the front channels, so I was a little suprised, but the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, and I haven't been disappointed with playback quality. In fact, I have a Sony 555ES CD/SACD player and I actually prefer sending a digital out to the receiver using the MCACC and upsampling, instead of running the analog outs into the L&R multi-channel inputs(CD playback). I'm not saying the 45TX is better than the 555 DAC-wise, but because of the room and placement issues, I think the MCACC gives a better overall presentation in my set-up.

Minus a few things like a more robust amp, higher bandwith component switching, and maybe more rear digital inputs, I think the 45 competes with anything under 2 grand. It certainly has alot of processing power compared to others in its price range and the MCACC puts it on top, IMO.

When I decided I couldn't afford a Sunfire Theater Grand III and I was looking for a receiver to use as a pre/pro, I compared everything we had available(Denon 3802, Yamaha 1300 & 2300, Kenwood Soveriegn, the Sony ES models)and ended up with the Pioneer if that gives you any idea.

DJ

 

[MikeRP]

Thanks for the feedback David.........
Very informative..........
Mike

 

[Brae]

Ok, so I may need to stick my nose into a PartsExpress catalog tomorrow and look for an 80,000 uF, or two, cap and see whay MikeRP will do with them after I send them to him.

 

[Dalton]

Dalton, which exact model Acurus did you get? I went looking on Audiogon and almost every amp listed for Acurus was SOLD. That's not funny.

Brae,
I bought it in the classifieds here at the forum. It is the Acurus A100x3. It was a lucky find. If you keep watching here and Audiogon(an ebay also), they turn up from time to time. A great amp, I am very pleased with it.

Take Care,
Dalton

 

[MikeRP]

Brae:
Well when I see those capacitors show up ......... I feel like Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry.........Go ahead - make my day!
Hey Dalton - I'll check out this amp.
Thanks All.
Mike

 

[Dalton]

MikeRP,
If you can't get a hold of the Acurus there are alot of great 2 ch. amps out there at reasonable prices. Just taking a load off of the 45tx with a 2 ch. amp will be a nice improvement in sound. I replyed the scene in Gladiator today where i got the 45 to shut down at -3db(without the Acurus). Well, i couldn't even get past -7db and it was way louder than before with the Acurus hooked up(i'm not too surprised though). The only regret i have is selling my Carver A705x 5 ch.(125x5) THX amp. I sold it because i was all set to go with the 47tx and didn't think i would need it. Oh well, the Acurus 100x3 is perfect and i got it for $300 les than i sold the Carver for. I am picking up a Denon DVD1600 on friday so will let ya know how dvd-audio sounds with the 45's analog inputs.

Dalton

 

[Brae]

I guess I am cheap. I just don't want to have to spend more than $400 on a 2x200 amp. This is my first home theater and moeny isn't growing on the trees in my yard. I guess maybe I should have driven to Canada to buy those Paradigms as that would have saved me >$800.

 

[MikeRP]

Thanks Dalton....
If you get tired of the Acurus amp -- let me know
In the meantime please keep us informed of your 45 experiences!
Brae:
Now I don't think your cheap by the equipment you've purchased so far....... I'm thinking of going to Canada to get my paradigms - if that's what I go with.
Keep in touch..
Mike

 

[Dalton]

If you get tired of the Acurus amp -- let me know

Mike,
That may take a while. I was playing some of my favorite discs tonight and boy they never sounded so good. I would even swear my SVS subs sound better! Does the subwoofer signal from you receiver/processor greatly affect the subs output? My subs seem more "robust" for lack of a better word than they did with the Onkyo 797. Anyone have any insight on this?
Dalton

 

[Josh_Z]

From what I was told by a salesman the 45tx power supply weights about 15 lbs. I would consider this relatively large considering the total weight of my Denon 3300 was only around 30. Granted the 3300 isn't current. This is of course assuming that the power supply takes up a large percent of the receivers weight.

 

[Josh_Z]

Dalton,

I was reading in one of the magazines that the VSX-49 has an unclipped output of around 11 volts from the sub out. If the 45 is anywhere near this it could explain why your sub sounds better.

 

[MikeRP]

Really no insight on the sub from here Dalton except that for me my sub sounds better 'cause I'm always getting the best from it because of the bass peak limiter.
With my other receiver's I was always messing around with the output of the sub - because of the different dynamics of CD's or DVD's. the peak limiter solved that problem!
Josh:
I think for a high end guy the amps are not enough. But, for a guy like me they are better than anything I've had in my life. David Judah's comments were very insightful IMHO. And weight is always a good indicator - at least initially - of the power supply robustness. I always pickup a reciever when I'm checking it out in the store.
I still Luv my 45!
Mike