Goodbye 3802, Hello Elite (1 Viewer)

[David Judah]

Daniel,

It does eek out a bit more detail in the treble, which may be good or bad depending on the recording.

It's subtle, not dramatic, but I find myself using it more often than not for CDs.

DJ

 

[Brae]

I would also imagine the amount in which this feature shows itself will depend a lot on the speakers one is listening from.

 

[Ronald Volkman]

I don't know how Pioneer implements their upsampling, but upsampling can't add any more detail to the digital signal. What it CAN do though is allow the analog ouput of the DAC to be rolled off at a higher frequency. If you sample at 44khz or 48khz, you have to begin rolling off the analog output at half of that frequency, or 22-24khz, to avoid digital artifacts. If the digital data is upsampled to 88/96khz, then you don't have to roll off the analog output until 44-48khz. To some listeners on some systems, there may be an audible difference.

Ron

 

[MikeRP]

Hi All!

There definitely is a difference with the Hi-Bit sampling on.

The CD's sound more refined and defined. I'm not sure what that means. I guess it seems like the sound is more realistic - more like the recording was just made and not shortchanged by losses in the transfer.

As DavidJ says its subtle - not dramatic but I think better.
I don't think is marketing hype - it works.

hope this helps...

Mike

 

[David Judah]

I don't know how Pioneer implements their upsampling, but upsampling can't add any more detail to the digital signal.

Right. I'm not saying the Pioneer is adding any new information, but retaining and not smearing the detail that is often lost by the steep roll-off of conventional digital filters.

On alot of mid-fi gear the upsamplers don't really make a difference. I own a Technics DVD-A10 and a Panasonic DVD-RP-91 and that is the case with those. The cool thing about the Pioneer, is that the upsampler is uncharacteristically effective--a nice bonus for something in it's price range.

DJ

 

[Peter Loan]

Does the 45TX have analog bass management or is it fixed at 100 or 80hz?

 

[darrell_s]

Does the 45TX give you the option to use the rear center surround terminals for a set of b-speakers instead?

 

[Brae]

Hey Mike, I got to torture a 43TX, 47, and 49TX today! In in all three cases I managed to get them to ALL shut down. I went to a new shop that had the 45TX and 49TX and we drove some pretty hefty Pinnacle speakers. I asked the guy to push the receiver real hard and sure enough we were greeted with silence.
I then had a more another salesperson come out and tell me he has personally seen all Elite receivers shut down under serious loading. He thinks its the nature of the Elite beast. With this in mind I drove to two more shops and managed to silence 43TX and 47TX, too! These were connected to what I'd call less than stellar Boston Acoustic towers, but the end result was silence to the ears.
Please keep in mind that when I say driven hard I do not mean simply loud, but as dang close to 0dB as could have been gotten before the units shut themselves down. What is strange is that I drove the same dang Boston speakers with a Denon 3208 to the same ear-deafening levels and beyond and it did not shut down.
What the ???
I suppose the safety mechanism can be a benefit or an annoyance (read that as handicap) depending on how you look at it (and not 'hear at it'). Just to make sure the Denon 3802 would shut down I had the sales guy deliberately short one of the speakers. We initially tried this at easy listening volume and it wouldn't shut down. But, while the short was in-place I raised the volume and boom, shutdown as expected--maybe just not when it was expected.
Unfortunately, I do not have the means to contact Pioneer regarding the sensitivity or threshold in which this shutdown takes place. I do understand that Pioneer would like to keep the electronics from getting burned up, but believe me when I say it isn't required to have ear-deafening volume level to reproduce these results. I would imagine a more efficient speaker would be louder at the point of shutdown than a less efficient.
BTW, the local shop that I got my Paradigms is no longer treating their original 45TX as a lemon as the replacement unit, and other Elite models, are doing the same thing. They have offered to sell me the original unit as new for $1K even. I've got to think about this tonight. Comments?

 

[Alex F.]

Thomas (or others familiar with the 45TX)--I could not discern the following items from the posted photos:

Does the remote permit increasing/decreasing the output level of individual channels (including the subwoofer) without using the on-screen menu? If yes, are the +/- db changes shown on the unit's front-panel display? I sometimes make minor level adjustments during a movie without others in the room even knowing it.

Does the remote allow one to select modes (stereo, Pro-Logic II, DD, DTS, music surround, etc.), again without using the menu?

Is that a "switched" AC outlet on the rear panel?

Also:

Does the front-panel display always indicate overall volume?

Is there any audible hiss from the surround speakers in any surround mode at loud volumes (from about 1-2 feet away)?

Thank you!

 

[Ronald Volkman]

Alex,

"Does the remote permit increasing/decreasing the output level of individual channels (including the subwoofer) without using the on-screen menu?"

Yes.

"If yes, are the +/- db changes shown on the unit's front-panel display?"

Yes, in lower right corner.

"Does the remote allow one to select modes (stereo, Pro-Logic II, DD, DTS, music surround, etc.), again without using the menu?"

Yes.

"Is that a "switched" AC outlet on the rear panel?"

Yes.

"Does the front-panel display always indicate overall volume?"

Yes, in db.

"Is there any audible hiss from the surround speakers in any surround mode at loud volumes (from about 1-2 feet away)?"

Haven't noticed any, but haven't really listened.


Ron

 

[David Judah]

Peter,

No analog bass management. The crossover points are 50, 80, 100, 150, & 200 HZ.

Darrell,

Yes, the surround backs can be reassigned to another room with video.

DJ

 

[MikeRP]

Brae:

I think you caught my comments elsewhere.....

Mike

Alex:

My receiver is as quiet as a church mouse..........No hissing allowed or wanted or shown!

The switched AC outlet is limited to 100 watts (.8 amp) I believe. So one could probably not hook up another amp to it.

Mike

 

[Alex F.]

Ronald & Mike:

Thank you very much for the info!

Alex

PS to Mike: Not to worry, as I use the switched AC outlet only as a trigger for an Adcom line conditioner, which turns on/off other components in the system.

 

[MikeRP]

Hey Alex:

Point me in the right direction where I can find your line conditioner - if you would. I think I'll take a look at one of these.

Thanks

Mike

 

[Alex F.]

Mike:

I've used Adcom's ACE-515 line conditioner/surge suppressor for several years. I bought it primarily to turn on/off power amps in our theater room (it has high-current outlets and delayed switching, designed specifically for that purpose, in addition to outlets for accessory gear). The power on/off function was triggered by our Denon AVP-8000 pre-pro's switched AC outlet (the Adcom has a standard AC cord that plugs into any switched outlet--the cord is used only to send on/off instructions to the Adcom).

The Adcom is now being used in a new den system. Our new theater room, in a house we just built, is currently a storage space for unopened boxes. Almost every day there are more boxes to unpack--I'm beginning to hate cardboard. That's the result of moving 13,000 lbs. of "stuff." Mayflower Van Lines, thanks for telling me how much it all weighed!

Adcom (adcom.com) discontinued the ACE-515 and replaced it with two newer units. I don't know if the new units have the power-switching function. A look at Adcom's website yielded info only about the surge-suppressor and AC-conditioner design.

 

[MikeRP]

Thanks Alex!

 

[DevinT]

Anyone that is concerned about the 45tx shutting off at high levels need not worry. The first two weeks I had the receiver it TOO went into protection mode at high levels. A month later it works like a charm. All that it needed was break it time. It can handle tons of torture. However, my ears don't like me for it.But the sound at high levels is quite impressive. 7 channel stereo at -2 is EXTREMELY loud and clean. I knew the mass of the unit was good for something! The JBL s38's are a great match for the Pioneer. Still no regrets on my trade in of the 3802.

 

[MikeRP]

Devin:

Beleive it not Devin - I was starting to think along your lines yesterday and today. My receiver seems now to play louder at lower volume levels.

I know breakin has been reported as something you should do and I played mine for about 6 hours last weekend while gone at -25 db.

I've never had mine to shutdown.

What do others think about this break in question?

Mike

Ps. I was playing today with the DPL2 music mode and the center width, panoramic, and dimension adjustments. I thought music sounded pretty good in DPL2 before I started adjusting these. But, I prefered 2 channel or 5 channel stereo. But now - WOW - I can't beleive how good the sound is after adjusting these settings. Have you tried this?

 

[DanielSmi]

well mkie there is another thing the 45tx has that the 47 or 49tx don't and that's the center width, panoramic, and dimension adjustments for DPL II. Can explain more about these, since I've never used them I don't really know what they do.

Daniel Smith

 

[Josh_Z]

Brae,

I would hope that any critical listener wouldn't try such a goofy test. I am very surprised that you found an mid fi dealer that would let you do that to their equipment.

Protection modes are there for your speakers also. If a decent amp senses the drivers are losing control, then of course it would shut down. Also because the Denon didn't shut down when cranked all the way has absolutely nothing to do with power output, but more with distortion tolerances. Myself, I don't want to hear distortion. Your mileage may vary.

If loud and abusive are your requirements for equipment, I would look at some professional amps.