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Goodbye 3802, Hello Elite (1 Viewer)

Brae

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MikeRP, I see you are on this forum, too. ;) Could I get everyone to list what speakers they are using with their 45TX? Also, MikeRP, does the shop you bought from do mail-order? I went ahead and dropped the dime on the speakers (Studio 100's in rosenut veneer, CC, ADP's) so no trupping to Canada.
 

Thomas_Berg

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right now, i'm doing a comparison shootout between the Rotel RSX-1055 and the Elite '45TX. speakers are B&W 602 x4 and the LCR-60 center. i'll try to have a review up in the next week if i can get some free time...
 

MikeRP

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Can't wait to see the review Thomas. I'll be waiting...
Looking forward to your opinions!
Mike
 

Brae

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MikeRP,
How about posting a pic of the back panel, or what I like to call the mystery panel as Pioneer refuses to publish the Elite back panels. :)
Pretty Please!
 

Thomas_Berg

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actually i just took some pics of both receivers (front and back panels). i'll try to get them up after class today.
 

MikeRP

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Thanks Thomas

Its going to be a couple of weeks before I'll get mine out of the cabinet again.

Mike
 

MikeRP

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Brae:
You make me laugh man...............:b
I never knew anyone from Atlanta I liked....but your changing me mind............:D
Mike
 

Thomas_Berg

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sorry for the tardiness guys, but here's the pics as promised:
Pioneer back1
Pioneer back2
Pioneer front1
Pioneer front2
Pioneer front3
Pioneer front4
Pioneer front closed
Pioneer front open
Pioneer renite
Rotel back
Rotel front
Rotel remote1
Rotel remote2
Rotel top1
Rotel top2
other equipment used
the front three speakers (two B&W 602s3's and an LCR60s3. surrounds are 2x 602s3.)
the front three w/grilles off
sorry, but they're big! i know most people want the highest resolution possible cuz these are the only posted pics i know of of the Pioneer's back, so i made sure to take them with the highest resolution possible. enjoy!
also, i cant host these for too long since it's using my personal webspace (which is very limited). if someone else wants to host, please feel free to do so!
 

MikeRP

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Aug 8, 2002
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514
Thanks Thomas!

Great pics.........

Nice reference tool. I notice the power supply says 600 Watts or 780 VA. I need an engineer to explain this to me.

120 VAC * 5A = 600 Watts. But rating also says 780 VA.

I'm going to ask someone today.

Mike

By the way how do you like those speakers? What could I expect to pay for a set of those?
 

Brae

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Jul 25, 2002
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509
Yes, this is puzzling. I wonder which channel gets shafted after the first six channels take their 100Watts. :)
Thomas, YGM!
 
Joined
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Mike,

Hope this makes sense - someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Remember that the 120VAC from the wall goes from 0 to 120v sixty times every second. The current (A) reaches a max of 6.5A under full load, but it ALSO goes from 0 to 6.5A sixty times a second. So 120 x 6.5 = 780 watts? But the max current (A) comes just a little later (phase) than the max voltage (V). So when the current reaches 6.5A, the voltage is at say, 92v, already on its way back down to 0. So the wattage is 92v x 6.5A = 600 watts.

Example: Take a coiled up garden hose (transformer) and blow in one end while holding your hand near the other end. You start to blow, but the air comes out the other end a second later. The blowing is the voltage, and the air is the current. In the power transformer, this "lag" is only microseconds long, but it's there.

Ron
 

Brae

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Ok, but at which point does all seven (7) channels get the maximum available power? Also, where did the 6.5A figure come from, certainly not the wall outlet. :)
Also, I do remember it depends on the nature of a given circuit for which conditions of V vs. I is leading or trailing the other (i.e. V can lag I, too). So, I have forgotten more than I remember when it comes to basic electronics, and electricity & magnetism. Wonderful!
Getting old sucks.
 

Thomas_Berg

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Mike- i really love the B&W's since i'm a music freak. i think MSRP on the 602's is $600/pr and about $450 for the center, but i could be wrong. regardless, they are amazing, and DVD-Audio has never sounded so good to my ears!
 

Brae

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Messages
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I tried to find a B&W dealer to go visit last Saturday, but the one I went to stopped carrying their products--wanted to listen to the DM/CDM lines. Out of frustration, I went and got the Paradigm Studio's.
 

MikeRP

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Aug 8, 2002
Messages
514
Ron:

I think were on the same path. Basically, if I'm right we are talking about real power vs. apparent power and your explanation tries to bring it down to something we can understand. Don't ask me to explain the difference.

Also,in talking with an electrical type today he thinks the 600 watts is max continuous rating of the amp. Not the max instantaneous rating. He believes its very feasible (and not underhanded) rating receivers as most manufacturers do - not ALL Channels Driven. HK I know rates all channels driven. This 45 TX and many other manufactuers obviously do not rate receivers ALL Channels Driven. Very seldom would it happen in real life that all channels are driven.

Except one thing he mentioned, BRAE, is that it is his understanding that the manufacurers rate speakers to normally operate in the middle third of its Power Rating.

I think those speakers (Paradigm)were rated at 350 Watts Max. I'm not for sure. If that the case - and you were listening at loud volumes, you were probably asking the receiver to put out nearly 200 watts per channel. Obviously exceeding the rating of the amp. But the amp did handle it for a while - interesting. Might be a better amp than you think. Another thing to remember is that at home your listening level probably won't require as much power as in a big store to get the volumes of sound you like.

More tonight - after I hear ya'll responses.

Thanks

Mike
 

Brae

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Jul 25, 2002
Messages
509
Whoa, I'm not knocking the 45TX. On the contrary, I WANT to buy the 45TX and probably will but it. But, I will add to it, out of necessity (and for the joy of spending money), a 2-channel 200WPC amp.
What I am thinking of doing is building a couple of power-loads using power resistors to impersonate the 8-ohm loads of the mains (i.e. Studio 100's) in stereo fashion. Then, I will connect the receiver's FR and FL channels and drive them at 0dB. Using an ampmeter (inline of course), I will measure the current and derrive the power resulting.
My biggest concern in doing this is a) find the source-method for generating a signal to drive the receiver wide-open@0dB and finding sufficient power resistors to handle the (cough) +3.5A that will pass through them.
I'll try to find a reason fuse to inline on the speaker wire to protect the receiver from going over 4A as this would cause 128W to pass through a channel. That happening would cause me to return the unit for a working replacement, hehe.
Anyone else have any hairbrain ideas? ;)
 

MikeRP

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Aug 8, 2002
Messages
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Wow Brae:
You got some neat ideas. I agree with the 200 WPC thing. I'm kinda going the same way but with my old Pioneer rated at a conservative 125 WPC. But, once you figure out how to do this test - I'd like to know the results...
After I buy those speakers we talked about - I probably get kicked out of the house at 60 db anyway.
Mike:D
 

DanielSmi

Second Unit
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
Messages
455
Let me ask you guys with the 45tx, can you tell a difference between the hi-bit upsampling on or off. Does it sound better with it on, or can you not tell the difference and you thinks it's just marketing hype. It just sounds like a marketing tactic to me but I haven't heard it so I wouldn't know.

Daniel Smith
 

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