GoldenEye DVD ( S. E.) (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kleist]

They use a player with analog 5.1 outputs, record each output onto a computer as a WAV file. Then use those files as a source to compress to DTS.

Bitrate has NOTHING to do with it. I can use a crappy little AVI file and convert it to uncompressed video. The file size goes from 10MB-1GB, but the quality remains the same. They're bootleggers, they don't care about quality

 

[Marty Lockstead]

Jaleel,
Tom was right, the Bond titles are all on moratorium until Die Another Day gets released. MGM has done this ever since GOLDENEYE came out on vhs. If rumours are correct, the 007 franchise is the only thing keeping the studio financially afloat. As far as the DTS debate goes, I own the special edidtion dvd and dts laserdisc and as far as I'm concerned, the laserdisc sounds better than any dvd version ever will. It's a simple matter of compression. Especially since MGM would never sacrifice special features to go for a full bitrate dvd anyhow. But, being a Bond fanatic, I don't mind owning two versions of GOLDENEYE.

 

[JaleelK]

They use a player with analog 5.1 outputs, record each output onto a computer as a WAV file. Then use those files as a source to compress to DTS.

So what they are doing is upcoverting compressed DD 5.1 into uncompressed PCM wav files, running into the DTS encoder.

 

[Philip Hamm]

So what they are doing is upcoverting compressed DD 5.1 into uncompressed PCM wav files, running into the DTS encoder.

In a nutshell. They can probably create six WAV files from the DD stream on the disc directly in protools or their DVD authoring software. Once the WAV files have been extracted, they can add any compression, EQ, whatever they want, then encode that as DTS.

 

[JaleelK]

In a nutshell. They can probably create six WAV files from the DD stream on the disc directly in protools or their DVD authoring software. Once the WAV files have been extracted, they can add any compression, EQ, whatever they want, then encode that as DTS.

What they are doing is creating a makeshift master so to speak?

And the DTS decoder will decode it, running at a bitrate of either 754 kbps or 1.5 mbps ? In other words, I was to use a bitrate meter, what wil it tell me playing one of these disc?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Yes, it's a true DTS stream. Like I said you can compress a 10MB AVI file to uncompressed video and turn it into a 2GB file, but you can't change the quality of your master. Once they run it through the DTS software, it's DTS, but it still sounds the same (and probably worse since it's been compressed/decompressed/compressed/decompressed

 

[JaleelK]

Yes, it's a true DTS stream. Like I said you can compress a 10MB AVI file to uncompressed video and turn it into a 2GB file, but you can't change the quality of your master. Once they run it through the DTS software, it's DTS, but it still sounds the same (and probably worse since it's been compressed/decompressed/compressed/decompressed

In view of all of that, I must say, they did a pretty good job, the disc I have is superior to the DTS laserdisc I owned and sold. If you adjust the bass level on the DTS soundtrack, you have awesome soundtrack.

Anyway thanks for explaning how they can create a DTS soundtrack without having the original master.

 

[Justin Lane]

If you adjust the bass level on the DTS soundtrack, you have awesome soundtrack.

Or in this case, you may be able to say you have an awesome DTS track from a DD master. What is the world coming to.

J

 

[JaleelK]

Or in this case, you may be able to say you have an awesome DTS track from a DD master. What is the world coming to.

It today's world of audio, I guess anything is possible, they revived pro-logic and called it pro-logic2.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Actually, Pro-Logic 2 is MUCH improved over standard Pro-Logic.

 

[Oscar]

Well guys, many DTS soundtracks are nothing but reformatted versions of the Dolby track.

Prettty much that could be Pearl Harbor or The Fifth Element Superbit DVD.

As they sound extremely similar.

(Sigh) i guess that back in the early days of DTS DVDs they really did a great job, and i mean, if studios couldnt get the DTS master of the film, then DONT DO A REFORMATTED VERSION OF THE DOLBY MASTER!.

Real shame.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Oscar, not they're not

While it's true that if DTS preps the track, that they cheat and punch up the volume and the areas that DTS is strong in, these days most DTS compressions are being done outside of DTS for DVD, therefore they're all coming from the same uncompressed master, the ORIGINAL sound mix. Frankly that's one of the reasons why I don't like DTS. On the few tracks that I can hear a difference on, DTS has juiced the track and altered the sound designer's original intent. If they can't beat Dolby on even ground, something is wrong there

 

[Oscar]

Well no offense Jeff, but that shows why in many of your reviews you seem to have a hating for DTS ()
I love DTS, the first time i heard it was back in 1997 in "The Lost World:Jurassic Park". The lost movie i saw with DTS was The Time Machine.
But, what i am saying is that this days DTS tracks are sounding very similar to Dolby tracks.
I think that DTS should do their own mastering on DVDs on studios, they know how to do it right.
And do Dolby tracks are also mastered in studios?
Another thing im angry is that DTS seems to care more for money than for quality, many DVDs with DTS tracks just seem there for marketing purpouses, not quality which is what DVD is all about.
Real shame on DTS and studios.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I don't hate DTS

I DO think the difference is so small that it's insignifigant

No, Dolby doesn't do their own mastering

You're not getting what I'm saying Oscar.

DTS CHEATS

They take the tracks and pump them in areas where DTS is strongest

Most DTS tracks are compressed at the studio now, using the ORIGINAL MASTER, no cheating, no pumping.

I'm sure Dolby could turn out something just as great if they had their engineers sit there and tweak it out too. But they've never bothered.

 

[Oscar]

And making a soundtrack close to reality is what the sound designers intent, im a filmaker. And i aksed a sound designer in Estudios Molinar in Juarez, which format he preffered DTS or Dolby? and he answered that DTS, because it truly brings the feeling that the movie needs.
But also notice that Dolby has done really stupid things in the past, in fact they even force the volume!.
An example could be in The Haunting Dolby DVD. The voice in Liam Neesons character sound unnatural and way too loud. And in the DTS track it sounds more natural and less loud.
Also the same could be with the Dragonheart Dolby DVD.
DTS tends to sound more controlled in any aspect, and Dolby forces the volume.
DTS IS the purpouse of the sound designer. Or at least i think.
I have been a big DTS fan, and always be.
Sorry Jeff.

 

[Oscar]

Oh, im getting what youre saying. I dont think DTS cheats, Dolby does. As i said they force their tracks.

But a Dolby track like the one in The Phantom Menace sounds awesome and natural and not forced. Whoever mastered that soundtrack from Dolby should do the same.

If you think DTS cheats, that is your opinion.

And the REAL MASTER is what we really want to hear, dont we?

Yet, i think im having a nice break from DTS, many upcoming DVDs dont have DTS.

I heard the Royal Tenenbaums has one, wow i cannot wait for hearing "Hey Jude" or "This Days" in DTS.

 

[Oscar]

But sometimes i do put DTS under suspicion, an example could be in The Grinch DVD were they exxagereated the Low-End.

Yet sound FX sounded crisper and clearer.

But DTS is about having the original master, and compress it a bit.

Which is a good thing, not a bad one.

But in a DVD like U-571 or Gladiator the diffences between Dolby and DTS are pretty big.

And ITS ALL IN THE EQUIPMENT, Jeff.

Mine usually works better with DTS.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Dolby never touched TPM. Ben Burtt did it then they compressed at Lucasfilm. That sound designer is also NOT talking about sending his tracks to DTS to be juiced for him. He's talking about a raw compression from HIS MASTER

Oscar, I've been meaning to ask, how old are you?

I have some very good credits under my belt in filmmaking. I was a PA on Richard Hatch's Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming, I shot many parts of one of the first Star Wars fanfilms "Fan Wars" and did all the FX compositing and many of the shots, I have 3 under 2 minute shorts and several commercials under my belt, and am currently finishing pre-production on a musical. I also have many live performances involving sound which I have helped write and direct as well as performed in.

So I don't think my credentials are a problem here

The fact that you don't even know the terms for "forcing the volume" says to me that you're just running around on the DTS bandwagon without knowing WHY

 

[Oscar]

Im 39 years old.

And Jeff if you dont like DTS, that is ok.

I respect your opinion as long as you respect mine,

Regarding TPM, i think that every DVD studio should do that with their soundtracks.

But you might be right about DTS, but inspite of that, my preferred format will always be DTS.

After all its all reduced to preference. Many people i know prefer DTS, as while others like Dolby.

And as in regarding of my films, i have directed, produced, written and acted in "City" and "August 2000".

Both are my films, but i think that sound is an important matter in films.

And i prefer DTS. Period.

Yet, i dont like the policy that Dolby and DTS have.

For example: "DTS sucks. Dolby rules, because more compression means better!".

Or DTS:"Dolby sounds good, but DTS brings all the clarity of the original master!".

And Jeff if you are making me turn to Dolby, you cant.

Even if this guys are cheating its my preffered format, no doubt about it.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I'm not trying to make you turn to the Dolby side

I'm explaining why DTS is not a-by default better and b-is not a fair comparison in many cases

Every studio should do what with their releases? Hire Ben Burtt? Like I said Lucasfilm compressed the track themselves, Dolby wasn't involved at all beyond providing them with the equipment and software. The point I've been trying to make is that DTS cheats, and that all things being equal, where both compressions are coming from the same master and neither one has been cooked, the difference in fidelity between the 2 formats is negligable.