Going to Best Buy these days is bittersweet (1 Viewer)

[Julie K]

Bill,
You need to lay off the anger. I don't have a $100,000 home theater (nor a $10,000 one nor even a $1000 one) nor do I have a trust fund. I also work for a living, ok? I have a feeling a lot of folks here are in roughly the same situation.
But I do like my movies in OAR. You don't mind full frame, well, neither do I when it is truly full frame. Most times, though, it's P&S and I will certainly not tolerate it.

It's not my place to lecture him in order to demonstrate my (supposed) superiority.

Yeah, I suppose when the woman started talking to me about those black bars I should have just said "Yeah, I hate them too!" Anything to avoid hurting some poor bastards fragile sense of self-esteem.
:rolleyes

 

[Andrew Pratt]

The STUDIOS are the people who release these pan & scan movies. They are the ones who started this whole problem in the first place with VHS

The prolem with widscreen and 4:3 occured long before VHS. It was the studios that invented widescreen ... they brought in widescreen when full screen was popular to draw people back into the theaters since 4:3 TV's were getting popular.

Personally I'd love to see a "trailer" about the benefits of widescreen etc on all DVD's sold (with an option to skip it for the already converted) I think education is the only way this is ever going to change. If people don't see the benefits its going to be hard to get studios's and TV broadcast etc to switch over to widescreen if the public doens't want it.

 

[Bill Balcziak]

Anything to avoid hurting some poor bastards fragile sense of self-esteem.

I think we've identified who's angry. I'm glad I don't share your attitude toward other people.

 

[Bill Catherall]

Calm down Bill. Nobody's being an upper class ellitist and mocking the lower classes. I think you are a little confused about what a "J6P" is. It has nothing to do with economic status or even whether or not they like beer. J6P is simply the uninformed masses. Or more accurately, those who don't give a da** about home theater, or any other hobby for that matter (e.i. when it comes to bug collecting I would be a J6P). So once again, since you obviously care about proper movie presentation and understand the importance of OAR, how are you a J6P?

 

[Julie K]

my opinion about OAR on some poor bastard at Best Buy

I was using your terminology.

If there was any 'poor bastard' at Best Buy that day it was me. The woman started up a conversation with me, out of the blue. She kept on talking even after I didn't know what movie she was talking about. Again, I ask you, what should I have said in response to her converstation about black bars? Should I have said "yes, I hate them too" and lied just to avoid any perceptions (by someone not there) of lecturing or being snobby?

 

[Jim_C]

This thread is going downhill quickly. Too bad. Mods, please close it if it gets out of hand.
>>BTW, I'm a J6P and your attitude toward people who work for a living offends me>Believe it or not, not everybody at HTF lives off a trust fund and has a $100,000 home theater>Some of us fall under the Joe Six-Pack classification and don't view it as some kind of dishonor and sign of ignorance>That's the definition of snobbery. You think you know better than everybody else

 

[Bill Balcziak]

I think you are a little confused about what a "J6P" is. J6P is simply the uninformed masses.

Forgive me, Bill, but I understand the concept just fine. What I take issue with is the categorization of J6Ps as uninformed, ignorant, stupid, etc. for the simple reason that they don't have OAR on their radar.

I pointed out, correctly and reasonably I think, that there are better ways to educate and inform than to take the approach favored by some people in this thread. I continue to be amazed at the lengths to which people will defend their patronizing attitude toward others. I see in this thread a troubling rationalization of condescension toward J6P, for the sake of "saving us all from P&S." Frankly, if that's what OAR represents, give me P&S.

 

[Jim_C]

Bill,
For the record I'd like to point out that in my original post I said that I overheard conversations. I never once stated that I imposed my views on them by interrupting their conversation and explaining pan and scan. I left them alone, as I should. Their buisness is just that, theirs.

 

[Bill Catherall]

Bill B. - Since 99.99% of the members here all feel the same way about OAR, this place has become a place to vent about J6P and not so much his stupidity (which really isn't the case) but his ignorance (which really isn't a bad thing, it just means uninformed). So an attitude that seems condescending on this forum may not be used with Mr. J6P...we're just venting. Could you give me an example in this thread (or others if you really want to dig around) of a member here coming down on someone to their face for being uninformed, ignorant, or stupid? Most every story I've read involved members politely trying to explain about the black bars. Some get good results, some get a typically J6P response, "Well I really don't care." How is a friendly conversation considered to be elitist? J6P doesn't participate in this forum, so it's a pretty "secure" place to come and vent without seeming like OAR nazis.

 

[MickeS]

I can talk aspect ratios all day long, but that doesn't mean I should foist my opinion about OAR on some poor bastard at Best Buy who's just trying to get a DVD for his kids that looks right on his $199 25" GE TV.

I have a 20" TV. It cost less than what some people here spend on a video cable. Screen size has NOTHING to do with it.

Yet, I WANT OAR. It has nothing to do with monetary situation or IQ. I know a couple whowere very well off, very nice qeuipment and everything... but they rarely watched DVD's because thdy don't like the black bars (I explained it to them, they didn't seem to care).

If someone says that they want "the whole screen covered" they are going to get an explanation from me (and others here) why they should avoid it. If they after that decide that they still want thwe P&S, fine. If they want to skip 1/3 of the picture, fine with me, but at least I want them to KNOW what they're missing. A lot of people don't even know about this.

If someone says that they "don't like those black bars", at least I want to make sure they know what they're complaining about.

/Mike

 

[Ryan Wright]

Believe it or not, not everybody at HTF lives off a trust fund and has a $100,000 home theater. Some of us fall under the Joe Six-Pack classification and don't view it as some kind of dishonor and sign of ignorance.

So there's the source. Hate to bring it up to you, sir, but few if any of us fit this classification. Almost all of us work for a living. Just because someone can afford a high end HT does not mean they live off a trust fund. Usually, it means they worked their asses off and made wise financial decisions. Few wealthy people get there via trust funds, or the lottery. Those that do usually don't stay wealthy for long.

I went without a television set for 2 years. That's right - no TV set at all. I watched what TV I could on a cheap tuner card installed in my PC. Why? I was saving my money for a big screen TV. I made sacrifices for it. If this bothers you or causes you jealousy to the point that you're willing to pass me off as a snob with a trust fund, then I highly recommend you reevaluate your financial situation. Make the same sacrifices we all made and you, too, can have a more expensive HT. Don't want to make those sacrifices? Then don't come on here and complain about us rich elitist snobs, because we're not. We're mostly middle class people people just like you, we simply sacrifice in other areas in order to allocate more money for our home theaters.

 

[Bill Balcziak]

Just a quick note to the person who sent me the nasty little e-mail a short while ago. I won't share the contents, but suffice to say there are some troubled people engaged in the forum discussions.

Unfortunately, you probably didn't anticipate that your e-mail and IP address were embedded in the originating e-mail. I've taken the liberty of sending a copy of your awful little correspondence to the HTF owners, along with the IP and e-mail info.

In the meanwhile, I hope you can get some help, friend. We might disagree on this topic, but that e-mail took things way too far.

 

[Carlo_M]

I am not absolved of guilt over using the J6P moniker (although I do it less and less as time goes by).

Education truly is the key.

Now I don't ram my views down anybody's throat. But if I do hear a question about "black bars" I do take it upon myself to explain the situation. I've probably done it near 50 times, 30+ to my friends/family, 20 or so to people in stores like BB, CC, etc.

Only once have I flat out been rejected. By my coworker who has a 19" screen and refuses to lose real estate on it. Of course he still only has VHS, he refuses to buy DVDs because of "the bars."

I can tell if the person wants to hear an explanation or not. Usually that person will say "I hate the black bars" and I'll just mention (if appropriate, i.e. we're near each other and the person doesn't seem to mind a gentle response) "but it shows the whole picture" or "more of the picture" - whatever the situation calls for.

Every time I've said that, they usually say "what do you mean?" and then I go on to explain. If they need an example, I usually point them out to scenes in a movie, or if at BB and there's a PC nearby, I take them to widescreen.org - yes I have done this a few times and you'd be surprised when they see the concrete examples.

I've never upset anyone, and if someone didn't want to talk about it, I'd never push. There are also the people who don't look like they want to talk, and I never get in their face.

We do need to educate, though, one person at a time. And politely.

 

[Darren Davis]

hhhhmm...that's a good idea Carlo about going to widescreen.org on the PCs there. I think that just might be a nice subtle touch to inform a few people about the difference between widescreen and pan & scan. I think maybe the hardest part in explaining is trying to get someone else to visualize so the pictures would be great. You don't even need to point out the website to anyone. Just going to every computer and leaving the webpage open might catch the eye of people passing by or even inform someone wanting to buy a computer at that time but might come back later for a DVD player or DVDs. Since most of us usually go to Best Buy or Circuit City with our purchases in mind we should all take the extra time to load the webpages up.

 

[Michael Caicedo]

Going back to the original topic of this thread I do kind of miss shopping the dvd aisle pretty much alone. I also use to frequent a mom-and-pop laserdisc/dvd rental store that is much too far to drive to since I moved. What I miss about that place is the conversations that could be struck up with other shoppers or staff. A number of those folks had a real love for movies and were often quite knowledgeble on all things related to movies/dvd. Alas I don't open my mouth much anymore when browsing. I do get some of that camaraderie by checking this forum.

 

[Dave Poehlman]

This has already been done. DVD players have this spec built right into them. For a little extra work, the studio could encode the P&S instructions on the disc and give the user a menu: Widescreen or Fullscreen. The DVD player itself would decode the P&S instructions and display the appropriate part of the picture.

Can't we sign a petition or something to get on the studios about this? You would think they would want to produce half as many DVDs instead of a copy in each format.

 

[Todd Hochard]

I can't imagine how hard it must be to walk, with such a huge chip on your shoulder.:rolleyes
I've spent about $10000 on my setup (hardware only- probably that much again on software). I have no trust fund, and since my Dad is a trucker, and I am oldest of five children, I can assure you, I never will. I paid for everything the old fashioned way- with EARNED money, over many years. Imagine that.
Of course, I don't care for those that complain about the black bars, without even attempting to understand the issue. It's the closed-minded "don't know and don't care" attitude that is the mark of J6P- it's the "intentional ignorance" that bothers me. This applies to things that are a WHOLE lot more important than OAR, but we don't need to go into that on the HTF.
Look at it this way- what if a restaurant, that you frequent EVERY day, took all the spices out of the food, because two passing-through tourists complained about it? They don't have the passion for the place that you do; they have no real interest- they came looking for bland Roast Beef in your favorite Indian restaurant (ok, bad example, but still ). Would you be upset? After all, it's your passion, not theirs- they were just hungry.
Anyhow, I don't miss shopping the aisles alone. I'm glad there are many, many people now enjoying what DVD has to offer.
I don't want a collection of Pan&Scan movies. If that's what DVD comes to, I'll stop buying. After all, I can get that from cable.
Todd

 

[Dave Poehlman]

I'm not a J6P... I'm a J12P!

 

[Mark Zimmer]

I was amazed at how far back Best Buy's VCR stock has been trimmed. My sister needs a new one so a cheapie was on her Xmas list. I went last night, and there was one little stubbin of a shelf that had VCRs down part of one side. I think they had five models, three of which were mono super-el-cheapos. The cables took up more shelf space. I think they might have more models of turntable, for pete's sake! The consumer electronics world has certainly changed a lot. I'll be interested to see what J6P does when his VCR breaks down a year from now. DVD players, by comparison, had the whole of two walls and another short shelf besides.

 

[brian a]

I think the resturaunt is a false example because it's two tourists passing through. If everyone else in the resturaunt wanted no spice and you did, that you fit better as we are far outnumbered.

I'm also interested in the assumption that what's needed is education. People seem to leave little room for the idea that people might understand the difference and still choose pan&scan. That's not willful ignorance, it's a choice.

I have to admit that I'm guilty of watching 4:3 (sat, cable) sources in stretch mode most of the time. I've grown used to it and I actually prefer most things that way, even though I know that it's distorting part of the picture.

brianca..