Going from Rotel to Sony 4ES - a step down? (1 Viewer)

[stas]

I just upgraded my speakers to Magnepans (12 fronts, MGCC2 center and MGMC1 surrounds). The center only goes down to 160HZ so Magnepan recomments a custom version of the Outlaw ICBM to direct the bass from the center to the fronts and/or subwoofer. I currently have a Rotel RSX-965 receiver, so there is no way to use the ICBM unless I get a separate amp, use the 965 as a pre and put the Outlaw in between.

I read the S&V review of the Sony 4ES, and it appears that its bass management is flexibile enough so that I would not have to get the Outlaw. I could select a x-over of 120 for the center and 80 for the rears. So here are my questions:

1) Sorry to all Sony fans, but I have been converted into a Sony basher. My preconception is that it can't possibly approach the Rotel in terms of sound quality. Am I wrong? Would switching to Sony be a downgrade?

2) Would Sony be able to handle the power hungry 4 ohm Magnepans?

3) Is there a way in the Sony to send all bass to the Fronts first (LFE and the surrounds) and then send everything below 50hz to the Sub?

Also, I am open for other suggestions to my problem.

Thanks.

 

[NickSP]

"1) Sorry to all Sony fans, but I have been converted into a Sony basher. My preconception is that it can't possibly approach the Rotel in terms of sound quality. Am I wrong? Would switching to Sony be a downgrade?"
Are you comparing a Rotel receiver or the 1066 to the 4ES or are you planning on using the 4ES as a prepro. I am using the 4ES as a prepro and am very happy with it. Also my friend has his 4ES hooked up to a pair of Wharfedale EVO speakers rated at 6Ohms and 87db efficiency and the 4ES delivers anough power to make them sing.
Sound quality is very relative. The 4ES brings out details in music and movies which were earlier missing and the Sony has an incredible Bass Management which makes it very comparable to the Rotel and Outlaw. You should give them a listen and judge for yourself.
"3) Is there a way in the Sony to send all bass to the Fronts first (LFE and the surrounds) and then send everything below 50hz to the Sub?"
How about setting the crossovers of the fronts to 50Hz and let the SW handle the rest?

 

[Grant B]

I have two 6 channel Rotel amps that I have had more problems with than all my sony stuff combined (And I have a lot).
I would never buy Rotel again, garbage as far as amps are concerned.
Hate too Rotel bash but they diserve some bashing

 

[Daniel Lindgren]

Grant B, sorry for your problems. I have had no problems with all my Rotel gear (including a 6 ch amp) and I am very happy with the support from Rotel, regarding software upgrades.

All manufacturers have problems, what differentiates them is how they treat the customer when the problem arises.

 

[AaronBatiuk]

3) Is there a way in the Sony to send all bass to the Fronts first (LFE and the surrounds) and then send everything below 50hz to the Sub?

Not really. If you set your front speakers to "large", then I believe that the redirected bass from the surrounds will be sent to the front speakers. In this case, only the LFE is sent to the sub. Virtually all strong, deep bass will be found in the LFE channel of properly mastered soundtracks anyway.
If you really want to do what you request, and if you are planning to use outboard amplifiers for the front channels, then you could use a simpler (and less expensive) 2 channel crossover between the 4ES and the amps/sub to take the bass out of the front channels and direct it to the sub. In this case, you would set the 4ES to not use the sub, so that all bass (redirected and LFE) is put into the front channels. I am unaware of any receiver that would do exactly what you request with only its internal crossovers.

 

[stas]

Thanks for all the replies.

I would be especially interested if anyone has done an a/b comparisson sonically between the 4ES and a Rotel or similar receiver, especially for 2 channel music.

Alternatively, I could do it myself if I find a store that carries this receiver and allows for returns. Any ideas on where I can find it? Cicuit City and Best Buy do not seem to carry the Sony 4ES.

 

[kevitra]

Grant - Just out of curiosity, did you run your Rotel 6 channel amp in 3 channel mode? If so, the minimum is 8 ohms. If it drops below 8 ohms, it will blow a fuse. I was not impressed with their 6 channel amps. A Rotel tech told me they are meant for multi-room applications to drive 3 pair of speakers.

The rest of their amps are incredible. Very reliable and sound great.

 

[Wayne Ernst]

I would be especially interested if anyone has done an a/b comparisson sonically between the 4ES and a Rotel or similar receiver, especially for 2 channel music.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 4ES disables the subwoofer output when selecting either speakers "A" or "B" to listen to 2 channel mode. Am I correct in this assumption?

Finding a dealer that carries both Rotel and the Sony ES gear could be tough. I know of one dealer that carries Rotel, Integra, Denon and Onkyo - and another that carries Sony ES, Yamaha and Denon. Now, if we could just get them to "mix" together comparing all of these brands for sonics would be a piece of cake.

Stas, your location wasn't mentioned. Maybe, somebody in your area owns a 4ES and could contribute it for a day so you could check the sound qualities and differences.

 

[Daniel Lindgren]

I was not impressed with their 6 channel amps. A Rotel tech told me they are meant for multi-room applications to drive 3 pair of speakers.

Correct. The RMB 1066 power amplifier sound best in 6 channel mode, it's supposed to be used for home theater and/or multi-channel music purposes. It is possible to use it in bridged mode (3 channel), but the sound is a bit harsher with less bass control.

But in 6 channel mode it sounds great.

 

[terence]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the 4ES disables the subwoofer output when selecting either speakers "A" or "B" to listen to 2 channel mode. Am I correct in this assumption?

You are correct! When 2ch is engaged the subwoofer is disabled. Only in Auto Decoding,DCS EX and Normal surround modes subwoofer will engaged.

 

[Andrew Pratt]

I used to run maggies in my HT and for a brief time I used a Denon 3300 to power them and while it didn't shut down it was clearly running out of juice. I'm not saying the Sony would either but I'd be careful. Maggies really do benefit from a dedicated power amp. FYI the Rotel 1055 apparently can run 4 ohm speakers with out much trouble (which I varified on my speakers)

 

[AustinCC]

The Sony crossover has only 6dB/oct high pass:-( The speaker may draw more power from the receiver.

 

[AaronBatiuk]

The Sony crossover has only 6dB/oct high pass:-( The speaker may draw more power from the receiver.

I very much doubt that, but before putting my foot in my mouth, I'll do some measurements (later this evening). I will get back to you all about this. Sony receivers use proprietary (Sony designed) digital filter chips to perform the crossover functions in the digital domain before the DACs. I would be very surprised to see a digital filter implemented with only 6 dB per octave slope!
We will see later tonight...
UPDATE:
I owe AustinCC an appology. As much as it pains me to admit it, it seems that the 4ES does in fact use 6 dB/octave high-pass crossovers. I measured only the high pass crossover for front channels (not centre, surround, or low pass for the subwoofer). The fronts were set to "small" and the crossover frequency for them was set to 120 Hz. I played a sequence of test tones and measured the DC+AC RMS voltage at the speaker terminals (left speaker) using a DMM that can measure RMS AC voltages up to 30 kHz. I then converted the voltages to dB values using the formula 20*log(V - Vref), where Vref is the 'reference' voltage, ie 0 dB (this was the voltage output at 500 Hz). The results indicate that for every halving of frequency (one octave lower), the output is about 6 dB lower.