Godfather III - inferior sequel or just misunderstood? (MERGED THREAD) (1 Viewer)

[Michael Reuben]

Hagen: Roth engineered it, Michael. He made Pentangeli think you hit him. Deliberately letting him get off alive. Then the New York detectives turned Frankie over to the FBI. My informants say he was half dead and scared stiff -- talking out loud that you had turned on him and tried to kill him. Anyway, they had him on possession, dealing in heroin, murder one and a lot more. There's no way we can get to him and you've opened yourself to five points of perjury.

That's very close to the speech that made it into the final cut of part II. The big difference is that the second through fourth sentences were omitted.

Maybe someone decided that it would be improbable to have Roth engineering a plan to get Michael at an uncertain point in the future, when he'd just demonstrated that his real interest was in having Michael removed as promptly as possible. Take out those few lines, and Roth's "engineering" becomes a matter of his cleverly adapting to unforeseen developments. It's just as impressive on Roth's part, and a lot more believable.

M.

[Edited last by Michael Reuben on October 23, 2001 at 07:57 AM]

 

[BarryS]

I'm resurrecting an old thread here. There hasn't been a post in this thread in over a year, but I didn't want to start a new thread about Godfather III. I just recently bought the Godfather set (yes, a year late) and watched the films again for the first time in a while. I watched Godfather Part III tonight and I remain appreciative of it, while agreeing that it's the weakest of the trilogy. I used to own all three Godfathers on VHS and watched them many times, Part III included. My order of preference also happens to be the order of release. The first is my favorite and the third is my third favorite. After seeing Part III again, I had a few questions that maybe experts around here can answer:

Regarding Don Altobello and Don Tommasino, where did these guys come from? They are referred to as "old friends of the family", yet I don't recall any reference to them in the first two films. Were they just created for the third film?

What ever happened to Tessio? I don't remember him dying in Part II, but there's no mention of him in Part III at all. I actually thought that they killed Tessio at the end of Part I for being the traitor and teaming with Barzini, but I realized I was wrong when he showed up in Part II. Surely, Abe Vigoda would have abliged to return for Part III. Back in 1990, he didn't yet have steady work from appearing on Late Night with Conan O'Brien.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

Don Tommasino was the man who protected Michael in Sicily during I. He is indeed an old friend, and I feel because of this past history his death scene resonates quite well.

I cannot recall any mentioning of Altobello.

I remember Tessio's appearance in II as limited to the alternate timelines. A younger actor plays him during the De Niro sequences while Vigoda plays Tessio during the final flashback where Michael declares his enrollment in the military. I believe your first instinct of him being killed at the end of I is correct.

FWIW, one of the deleted scenes on the extra disc has an introduction to Roth in II, during the De Niro timeline.

 

[Michael Reuben]

In addition to protecting Michael in Sicily, Tommasino also appears (in a younger version) in Godfather II, where he helps Robert DeNiro's Vito take his revenge on the old don who killed his father. That's when Tommasino receives the wound from a shotgun blast that cripples him.

Altobello is an invention for Godfather III.

Tessio is killed at the end of Godfather I. All of the scenes in which the character appears in part II occur at times prior to the end of part I. Indeed, the only scene in which Abe Vigoda appears is the final flashback, which occurs on the day that Michael has enlisted in the marines; part I opens as Michael returns from the service.

M.

 

[JamieD]

Well, I enjoyed 3 just as much as 2. Not nearly as much as 1, mind you, but I still enjoyed it very much, and I didn't find it was THAT out of place.

With all that said, Sofia Coppola really WAS horrible.

 

[BarryS]

Don Tommasino was the man who protected Michael in Sicily during I.

Yes, that's right. Tommasino was the one who told Michael about Sonny's death, I believe. I remember now.

So, Tessio's death is merely implied. I thought I remembered him being in the 1958 Lake Tahoe scenes in Godfather Part II, but I could be wrong. I think Clemenza was sorely missed in Part II, by the way. However, Michael Gazzo did a great job with Frank Pentangeli. I believe Gazzo got an Oscar nom, didn't he?

Yes, Sofia Coppolla is the weakest point of Part III. Her speech when she presents the $100 million check to the archbishop is just embarassing. However, it could be said that it was in character. Perhaps Mary Corleone is not used to public speaking and that's why she seems a little wooden. However, that theory is shot because she's just as wooden in her other scenes as well. Oh well, I'll still defend The Godfather, Part III as a fine film.

 

[Dave H]

Actually bad. Actually, overall, I would say just a very average movie. But, considering this is supposed to be a Godfather film - viewed in this context - it was bad. The film had a poor pace and I agree that Sofia Coppola was part of the problem. However, the plot had its issues.

 

[Yee-Ming]

count me in the "relatively bad" camp. I didn't think it was bad at all, just that it couldn't measure up to the stellar I and II.

III was the first I watched in the cinemas, and for that matter in its entirety, seeing as I was too young for I & II. first time around, the Vatican bank plot was rather confusing. when I watched it again on DVD last year, it made sense, in a convoluted way.

BTW, DaveH's sig, isn't that just a paraphrasing of "Who Watches the Watchers", or the Latin original "Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes" or something like that? (see Alan Moore's "The Watchmen")

 

[Josh Lowe]

it's not a bad movie but of course is not a worthy sequel.

besides sofia coppola's stinkery, i really didn't enjoy seeing Talia Shire suddenly having become the Lady Macbeth. Especially at the end where she looked like she was practically aroused by watching the old man choke to death.. creepy and out of place.

 

[Brent Bridgeman]

When I saw GFIII at the theaters, I thought it was bad, but after watching all three pictures within a 1 week time frame, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. There are numerous references to the two earlier films that I didn't pick up on at all due to the fact I hadn't seen them in years. Not having to try to decipher those references left me time to concentrate on the Immobiliare (SP?) story and all it's nuances, which I did not understand fully in the first viewing.

That said, I still agree with the statements made above about the casting (Sophia Coppola, Robert Duvall, George Hamilton, et al) and think it could have been substantially better, especially with Robert Duvall back as Tom Hagen (In Gus McCrae's voice "I'god Michael, but you're stubborn as a three legged mule!").

 

[BarryS]

Especially at the end where she looked like she was practically aroused by watching the old man choke to death..

I didn't get that feeling at all. I saw a tinge of sadness as she says "Sleep, Godfather. Sleep." She's a bit somber yes, but she knows it's for the best. Actually, I always thought that Altobello was poised rather than choking. The cannolis that she gave him were tainted with something. As evidenced by her reluctance to take a bite when he says "You're so thin. You eat it." and she just takes a tiny lick off the end. Probably a slow-working poison that doesn't take effect until near the end of the opera, which explains why Connie is watching him with the binoculars.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I always thought...

I agree with Brent. I feel that Godfather Part III improves with successive viewings. I've seen it probably five or six times and I pick up on something new each time, it seems.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Well, I can only offer partial testimony. I saw GF I and II last year, and I was completely mesmerized. Brilliant, brilliant films. I put in the third film, and I stopped it about an hour in. I felt it didn't match up at all, and frankly, the big MOb Hit scene is what did it in. Watching second string actors put on death scenes worthy of Mafia! in a GF film was agony after the first two. It almost seemed a spoof.

Take that as you will,

Chuck