godfather 2/lotr EE space issues?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Christ Reynolds, Jan 5, 2003.

  1. Christ Reynolds

    Christ Reynolds Producer

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    how is it that godfather 2 has to be split up into two discs? 200 minute movie, and DD 5.1, french DD 1.0, and a DD 2.0 commentary track. then, lord of the rings ee, has a 208 minute movie, dts 6.1, DD ex 5.1, french DD 3.0, and four DD 2.0 commentary tracks. at first, when i got the godfather dvd set, i was fine with the second movie being over 2 discs, but know i know they can fit all the lotr stuff on one dvd, i'm not so happy about it. i know they split it up to keep the audio and video quality up to standard, but how is it that the lotr can fit on 2 discs, and still keep the so called 'reference' quality? maybe the godfather discs use just a little bit more than one full dvd, and the lotr packs it onto 2 dvds? anyone know more about this?

    CJ
     
  2. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Are you asking why Godfather doesn't have more extras but is still split across 2 discs?

    Godfather is in much worse shape that the spanking new LOTR, different bits go different places.
     
  3. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Instead of asking such trivial questions...just sit back and enjoy the beautiful video quality of The Godfather Part II. [​IMG]
     
  4. Tom Ryan

    Tom Ryan Screenwriter

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    A better question is...how was it that they could fit the 205-minute director's cut of JFK (with Stone commentary) onto one disc while maintaining video and audio integrity, but not do the same with The Godfather Part II? Perhaps we'll never know...
     
  5. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

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    Am I the only one who really doesn't get the question asked in the original post? I read it three times and still have no clue what it means. Maybe he wants to know why Godfather II is on two discs, but why mention the Fellowship EE, which is also two DVDs? At times it appears the poster thinks the latter is only one DVD, but other times he says it's two. Color me confused!

     
  6. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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  7. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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  8. Richard Kim

    Richard Kim Producer

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    If I'm not mistaken, GF2 had an intermission when shown theatrically, which is another reason it was split across 2 discs.
     
  9. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    I think Christ is wondering why Godfather II doesn't look as good as Rings, but maybe I am wrong.

    Christ, as Jeff alluded, these two movies have two different source materials and Godfather is 30 years old and required quite a bit of restoration. Rings is a new film.

    As far as space, I think it is good both movies are split over two discs to ensure optimal video quality.

    On a similar note, Apocalypse Now Redux is 202 minutes, but I am not sure how many tracks are on it - but it is on one disc and looks very good. (Could it have looked even better on two discs?.)
     
  10. Bill GrandPre

    Bill GrandPre Cinematographer

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    "Apocalypse Now Redux" features only one soundtrack and one trailer. This amounts to about 205 minutes of video with a single soundtrack. If you compare the running time of "Apocalypse Now Redux" with "The Godfather Part II" (running time 200 minutes), American Zoetrope apparantly split "The Godfather Part II" up because of the additional soundtracks, which is fine by me as the split occurs during the original film's intermission point.
     
  11. JohnRice

    JohnRice Lead Actor

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    Christ, I also don't really understand what you are complaining about. Godfather II is awfully long to cram on one disc, so it is on two. What are you suggesting, that it be on 1 1/4 discs? Discs go in full increments. If one isn't enough, two have to be used, even if two discs is gross overkill, and even if two discs can handle another hour of content and a few more soundtracks.
     
  12. Andy Kim

    Andy Kim Second Unit

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    It sounds like the original poster is under the impression that LOTR:EE comes all on one disc (that's the impression I got, having read it over also as its unclear).
    Well, LOTR:EE is actually spread over two discs just like GF2.
     
  13. Christ Reynolds

    Christ Reynolds Producer

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    ok i see where some of this 'confusion' is coming from. i said somewhere that lotr ee is on one disc, but then i said its on two. was a typo, but hardly anything to cause that much confusion.

     
  14. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Christ, the short answer to your question is that DVD uses MPEG compression for video, and every movie compresses differently. Some can take a great deal more compression, without visible artifacts, than others. That's why it's almost impossible to compare space requirements based on the length of the film or the number of soundtracks. The only person who really knows how much space a film requires is the compressionist, whose job it is to get the maximum quality out of the available space.

    Sometimes features get jettisoned during mastering, because it turns out that film can take less compression than was expected. A famous example of that is the X-Men DVD, which was originally announced with a DTS track. When Fox saw the difference between the video image with and without the additional compression needed to make room for DTS, they made the decision to drop the additional soundtrack. By contrast, the producers of the Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition made a somewhat late decision to include a DTS track, and after trying additional compression, determined that the extra track could be included.

    In short, space is a case-by-case decision dictated by numerous factors, of which the film's length is only one and maybe not even the most critical.

    M.
     
  15. Christ Reynolds

    Christ Reynolds Producer

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  16. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    it also depends greatly on the authoriing house doing the compression.
    Old Sony stuff had low bitrates and still looks good today next to higher bitrate films. It is all what you do with the bitrate. And as said, some films compress better than others.
     
  17. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

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  18. Gordon McMurphy

    Gordon McMurphy Producer

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    The Godfather Part II is on 2 discs because Paramount decided to do so. Probably because they felt that it would be the safest way to compress/encode the film on DVD.
    New Line used different compression techniques and equipment for The Lord Of The Rings: Extended Edition. Besides, those 4 commentary tracks take up very little room on the discs.
    It's all just a matter of personal perception and taste (ie. The Powers That Be at the Film Studio/Home Video division) when it comes to transfering, compression, packaging films on DVD.
    Gordy
     
  19. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Yes, all 4 commentary tracks were mono, I think they were like 0.86kb/s each
     
  20. Andy Olivera

    Andy Olivera Screenwriter

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    Actually, the FOTR commentaries are all 192kb/s. I've been wanting to ask this for awhile, but never got around to it: why aren't all commentaries recorded at 96kb/s? Fox did this with Fight Club. Now, an extra 96kb/s may not seem like much, but when you multiply it by the length of the film and the number of tracks, it can add up to a reasonable amount of space that could be devoted to video, or even another audio track. For example, if the FOTR commentaries were recorded at 96kb/s, that would've saved enough room to include another DD5.1 track. Anyone have an explaination for this?
     

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