Ghost in the Shell (2017) (1 Viewer)

[Tino]

By the way I'm a huge fan of the Anime film and I had no problem with the casting, more so after the film was over as it is kind of rationalized.

 

[Citizen87645]

The way they rationalize it actually makes it worse for those who had concerns in the first place.

 

[Tino]

The way they rationalize it actually makes it worse for those who had concerns in the first place.

So You've seen the film?

 

[Citizen87645]

I'm just sharing what others have said. I may feel differently when I see it for myself.

 

[revgen]

Anybody who is planning to see this film, I highly recommend that you plan on seeing it in 3-D if your eyes can watch 3-D films comfortably. I enjoyed the film, but I don't think it's for everybody. Outside of the strong 3-D, Blade Runner visuals, and Scarlett Johannsen, this film isn't as engaging as it could be. Thankfully, I like all three factors I mentioned earlier, so my experience was positive. It also helps that Johanssen is in nearly every scene to help carry the film.

 

[Tino]

Regarding the casting debate:

"
“I don’t think it was just a Japanese story. Ghost in the Shell was a very international story,” producer Steven Paul said to Buzzfeed in response to the accusations of whitewashing in the wake of the photo’s release. Avi Arad, co-producer and founder of Marvel Studios, responded in kind, “Everything we pulled from the movie is because we thought it was cool. What was interesting about Ghost in the Shell is that it was never really a predictive future. It was more about […][provoking] a feeling in the audience. That’s guided design [...] That’s the same kind of philosophy in this movie.”

Even Oshii came to the defense of Johansson’s casting, speaking to IGN, “What issue could there possibly be with casting her? The name 'Motoko Kusanagi' and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her. I can only sense a political motive from the people opposing it, and I believe artistic expression must be free from politics.”

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/...hell-whitewashing-worse-than-thought-possible

 

[Citizen87645]

Based on this article, and other reviews, it sounds like the filmmakers actually went counter to Oshii's vision of the character history. If that's the case, I wonder what he would say about it now?

http://io9.gizmodo.com/io9-roundtable-how-ghost-in-the-shell-fumbles-race-and-1793909653

Regarding the casting debate:

"
“I don’t think it was just a Japanese story. Ghost in the Shell was a very international story,” producer Steven Paul said to Buzzfeed in response to the accusations of whitewashing in the wake of the photo’s release. Avi Arad, co-producer and founder of Marvel Studios, responded in kind, “Everything we pulled from the movie is because we thought it was cool. What was interesting about Ghost in the Shell is that it was never really a predictive future. It was more about […][provoking] a feeling in the audience. That’s guided design [...] That’s the same kind of philosophy in this movie.”

Even Oshii came to the defense of Johansson’s casting, speaking to IGN, “What issue could there possibly be with casting her? The name 'Motoko Kusanagi' and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her. I can only sense a political motive from the people opposing it, and I believe artistic expression must be free from politics.”

http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/...hell-whitewashing-worse-than-thought-possible

 

[Tino]

I think you need to see the film Cameron. I would be very interested in your take.

 

[Citizen87645]

I do, to be able to discuss it. But I don't think it will change my perspective on the casting issue. The fact that they have to do any rationalization of the casting decision will always be problematic, at the very least.

The article I linked to says everything I think is worth saying, so I'll just bow out of this thread gracefully.

Maybe I'll come back in a year after I've actually seen the film.

 

[Edwin-S]

I'm going to go see for two reasons only:

1) It is, at the very least, an "original" story, not a sequel.

2) Visually, the film looks striking and, sometimes, that is enough for me to want to watch it.

The Blade Runner influences don't bother me, because it is obvious that that film had influence on the look, feel and pacing of the original film. The manga is different in that respect. Shirow's original manga is quite a bit different in terms of pacing and world feel and look.

Casting, also, isn't an issue to me because the characters in the manga and the original movie are not "Japanese" looking. The characters in the film and manga are closer to Caucasian looking than Japanese. The Caucasoid look of anime in general is what makes it so translatable to a North American audience in the first place. To a Japanese watching an anime the characters are obviously going to be Japanese, due to the behavior of the characters and the cultural themes that permeate the stories. To a North American audience, the Caucasian look, while at first definitely odd, allows one to bridge the gap between their culture and ours. The characters may look "White" but their actions and behavioral patterns are definitely Japanese. Shirow and Oshii never made the characters physically recognizable as Japanese, so why should an American film for an ostensibly American audience be expected to suddenly make sure the characters are Japanese.

Shirow's story is set in the medium to far future where the delineation between Caucasian, Asian and African may be very much blurred. In reality, the film makers might have been better served to find an actress that was of mixed Caucasian/Asian ancestry to play the character if they really wanted to depict what that future might really be like.

Personally, I think the story is going to be a mundane telling of a story that has been re-used again and again in Hollywood films: that being the character as a victim of an evil government plot to steal and control their identity by turning them into killing machines. Kusanagi, in the original manga and film, was never an unwitting victim and never did anything that she didn't want to do. In fact, she was a loose cannon in Section 9. She was barely under the control of Aramaki.

 

[Edwin-S]

I actually had to drive around for a bit and process how I felt about this film after seeing it. All I can say is I didn't hate it and I didn't like it. I just felt disappointed by it. First, I thought the film would be more visually striking than it ultimately turned out to be. Secondly, it isn't saying much for a film when the best parts of it are the ones that are copied wholesale from the anime. I mean, all it demonstrated was that Oshii was is much better film maker with a better visual eye than the director of this film. Blade Runner influenced the original anime, but the anime wasn't a literal second rate copy of BR like this remake was.

Thirdly, well, the story was just mundane. Every thing that made the original unique was just jettisoned. The philosophy, the team dynamics....just everything. It was nothing more than the stereotypical evil villain CEO machinating to create the ultimate killing machine and......PROFIT. Frankly, the mundane, trite, storytelling in this film reminds me of TANK GIRL, another comic book property, whose crazed storytelling, was turned into one of the most dull assed movies my eyes had the misfortune to watch. In that film the only things worth watching were the two or three wacked out animated sequences that managed to capture more flavour of the original comic in thirty seconds than the rest of the film did in two hours. This live-action GiTS wasn't nearly as abysmal as TG, but it was treading over some of the same ground with its boilerplate "evil CEO heading an amoral corporation" story.

Lastly, it was annoying that few of the other team members of section 9 got any worthwhile screen time. Togusa and two new characters, played by Asian actors were virtually bit players and Ishikawa literally got shit on with his almost total absence. As a byproduct, the Black Australian actor that played Ishikawa was literally shit on as an actor by being virtually removed from the film. Really, I don't have an issue with them using a Black actor but, bloody hell, don't name him Ishikawa. Having a White actor playing a character named Kusanagi is enough of a stretch; However, at least they addressed the problem with that, even if it was ham-handed nonsense.

 

[Alf S]

Ghost "bombs" $19 million

http://variety.com/2017/film/box-of...in-the-shell-beauty-and-the-beast-1202020980/

 

[Tino]

I'm sure it will do very well overseas.

 

[Alf S]

It did 40ish million overseas i think.

 

[Edwin-S]

Are Tino and I the only ones here that went to see this?

 

[Wayne_j]

I saw this today, it wasn't very good but I'm glad I went because it was visually incredible and the 3D was excellent. I will be buying it on 3D Blu-Ray.

 

[Johnny Angell]

I do, to be able to discuss it. But I don't think it will change my perspective on the casting issue. The fact that they have to do any rationalization of the casting decision will always be problematic, at the very least.

The article I linked to says everything I think is worth saying, so I'll just bow out of this thread gracefully.

Maybe I'll come back in a year after I've actually seen the film.

This always troubles me when someone's mind is nearly made up with out seeing the content. Perhaps "justification" could be a better word than "rationalization." I know I want to see the film, and then I'll make up my mind.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Are Tino and I the only ones here that went to see this?

I saw it late Saturday night. I'm not very familiar with the source material. My biggest problem is that this was yet another movie where the trailer blows too much of the story. It wasn't as enjoyable watching it being so far ahead of the characters.

 

[Citizen87645]

Since "don't judge a book by its cover" and keeping an open mind are integral parts of my philosophy on life, I too find it troubling that I can't get past this one.

My rationalization of my lapsing now is 1) knowing that I'll probably be ready to watch it a ways into the future and 2) knowing that I'm not missing out on some seminal masterwork since there's already the anime.

This always troubles me when someone's mind is nearly made up with out seeing the content. Perhaps "justification" could be a better word than "rationalization." I know I want to see the film, and then I'll make up my mind.

 

[Tino]

I saw it late Saturday night. I'm not very familiar with the source material. My biggest problem is that this was yet another movie where the trailer blows too much of the story. It wasn't as enjoyable watching it being so far ahead of the characters.

But did you enjoy the film Josh?