Gas, and fuel-efficient cars, is this true? (1 Viewer)

[Erik.Ha]

I live in metropolitian Los Angeles... Ive never SEEN a deer, let alone swerved around one... Wait... Strike that... The Santa float in the Hollywood Christmas Parade has some sort of deer-like animal on it... Not sure if they were real THOUGH... Suffice it to say, the day I have to dodge a deer on Melrose Ave, is the day I have MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS than car safety...

At least you seem to allow that we might have different safety concerns that dont overlap, and we can both make the decision how to address those concerns for ourselves... I wish that was the position of EVERYBODY on the issue.

 

[GordonL]

Oil, like any other commodity, follows the law of supply and demand. Assuming demand stays constant (projections are 20% increase/yr although that might be for all fossil-fuels), OPEC reduces oil production, oil prices go up. OPEC increases oil production, oil prices go down. Events occurring that would impede the production of oil (war, disputes, etc) causes oil prices to go up and vice-versa. This is occurring despite the fact that we know we have enough oil for the near future. That, my friend, is real.

 

[Todd Hochard]

That's what I have a problem with. It is the transfer of risk.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

But that "transfer of risk" is significantly reduced given the following finding, which you did not quote, from the same study you did quote:


Seems like SUV's, while more prone to kill the occupants in the other car than the occupants of the SUV when accidents do occur, are actually in a much lower percentage of fatal accidents than would be expected given the number of SUV's on the road.

 

[Drew Bethel]

I would love to see some current data since SUVs are outpacing car sales.

I would actually consider purchasing a smaller SUV like the Hybrid Escape once the wrinkles have been ironed out with the first model. I won't be buying it for "safety" reasons though, but rather for space since we are starting a family and also have two dogs. If I can find a nice hatchback with similar cabin space I would also consider it.

 

[Mike Lenthol]

Jeff, even though the risk is very low it is still a valid argument, but only provided the drivers have absolutely no excuse for owning a larger vehicle other than just "wanting one".

Todd, I'm still curious though, do you have a problem just with very large cars, or all cars that are bigger than yours? Or is there some formula; like your CAR + 500 pounds then the problem starts?

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Any bigger is too big, any smaller is too small. This goes for every vehicle owner out there, from golf cart to Hummer.

 

[Erik.Ha]

Yeah, As a matter of fact I have... Those are those things that are impossible to build because they ruin beaches and harm marine wildlife, right??? And wow... If desalination was so simple, why do we still have droughts throughout the world that KILL millions of people??? Yet POOF, droughts will suddenly go away, AND not only that, we'll have water to spare to handle the extra load of powering the hundreds of millions of automobiles worldwide... :rolleyes

As far as NEED and CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION GO, let's keep in mind this is a HOME THEATER FORUM... Does anybody REALLY NEED a home theater system??? I mean big screen plasma TVs, Tower speakers, Multiple Surrounds and HUGE Subwoofers.... Wouldn't a black & white, 13 inch CRT, with factory speakers suffice? And all those big speakers CANT be good for your hearing... You MIGHT listen to them too loudly... and you might disturb your neighbors with them... And let's not forget about those hi-powered amplifiers, and all the energy THEY WASTE... This just will not do... I will organize the protest, if you bring the signs...

 

[MikeSerrano]

That reminds me of this Carlin quote:

"Have you ever noticed that anyone driving slower than you is an idiot, and that anyone driving faster than you is a MANIAC!?"

-Mike

 

[Scott Strang]

Here's your answer.

 

[Todd Hochard]

The formula would be where the "kill" rate starts increasing dramatically. Not the death rate, but the "kill" rate- note the distinction. Let the data decide.

I guess we've dropped the efficiency discussion entirely, which is really what I came in for. Let's get back to why Ford dropped the Hybrid Explorer entirely, because they couldn't even get an 8% economy improvement out of that overweight beast.

And to the philisophical- I have no interest in protecting anyone from themselves. Just protecting myself from you.

 

[Scott Strang]

One reason SUV's seem to kill more people the way some people drive them.

It's never been a bright idea to take a sharp curve at 70 in a pickup truck and yet people do that all of the time with SUV's.

They seem to forget that they're no longer driving BMW's, Audis, Buicks, etc with low center of gravity.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

.


As are the SUV drivers, except they are actively buying what they feel (and the 98' study seems to suggest) is the safest vehicle for them as opposed to requiring others to buy something they do not want or need in order to passively make them feel safe. Active safety versus passive safety, there is a difference

 

[Philip Hamm]

Subaru Legacy/Outback wagon. Much better safety than the very poorly rated Escape also. Better snow performance and similar off-road performance also.

 

[Mike Lenthol]

Todd, do you see how horribly prejudice you are?
You subconsciously interpreted that 4% as some sort of blood lust index, a kill factor common among SUV drivers! Not to mention that you made all SUV drivers automatically at fault!

 

[Eric Kahn]

sorry look at next post, cat helped on this one

 

[Eric Kahn]

I quit, can't finish a post, computer acting up now
third try at editing

 

[Eric Kahn]

I have swerved to avoid accidents in a fully loaded semi on more than one occasion, it is the way you do it that determines whether it is a safe maneuver or not, not the vehicle you are in.

I drive a turbo diesel New Beetle, weighs 3200 pounds and I get over 40 MPG without even trying in city driving

The 3,6,9 rule is wonderful and you might be able to follow it on some rural road about 1 in the morning, but in my real city, it is more like the half second following rule because if you leave any more space, 3 cars will pull in front of you to pass the person in the other lane who is only doing 70 in the 55 zone

And my corvette was cheaper to insure than my current new beetle is costing me

This is try 7 on posting this, I could not manage to complete one sentence before without it auto-posting for some reason

 

[Todd Hochard]

Never mind my poor choice of the word "cause." Replace with "involve." Then, answer the question posed.

 

[Mike Lenthol]

Your comparison can not be made, neither logically or mathematically, as one quote mentions both trucks and SUVs and the other only SUVs.


The statement does not equate to “for every fatal SUV/car crash there are 4 times more fatalities in the car”. Think about it.

Critical Reading 101