Gas, and fuel-efficient cars, is this true? (1 Viewer)

[GordonL]

That is the stupidest argument I've heard for not spending money on research. So what if there's no cure for cancer yet? There has been so much knowledge gained along the way, not to mention discoveries that could lead to cures for other diseases, that it's worthwhile to continue. The cure for cancer will happen eventually (hopefully?), maybe not in our lifetime, but not if the research dollars aren't there.

That being said, the research needed for alternative fuel sources is different than for cancer research - we're still trying to understand cancer and how it works. Alternative fuel we already know about, the technology exists, we just need to come up with innovative ideas to make them more efficient and economical. We know that hydrogen fuel cells work but it's current implementation makes it impractical. Providing more research dollars creates new jobs and brings in fresh ideas to the table.

 

[Holadem]

Talking about statements that make no sense, what the hell does this one mean?

--
H

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Did you ever think that maybe this is because a) People leave the sedan/mini-van at home (in the case of a 2 car family) and drive the SUV that day because THERE WAS A HEAVY SNOWFALL or b) People who only own a sedan/mini-van stayed at home because THERE WAS A HEAVY SNOWFALL? You know, I also only see snowplow and salt truck accidents in the event of a heavy snowfall, is that because of the "invicibility" of snow/salt truck drivers?

 

[BrianW]

I find it hard to believe that nobody has ever tried to change lanes into you, pulled out in front of you, or tried to make a turn from the wrong lane into your broadside. Not every accident begins with an observable incident 150 feet directly ahead of you.

Once on my way to work, a woman decided not to wait her turn to enter the freeway. I was in the middle of three lanes going 60mph. (Limit was 65.) She was at a dead stop in a congested on-ramp with about ten cars ahead of her waiting to merge. Without warning, she decided to cut around the cars ahead of her and bolt for the fast lane. Since she came from the side from a complete stop, there's no way I was following her too closely. Since she was at a dead stop (along with every other car in the on ramp), there was no warning or indication that she might be a danger. Yet here she was, suddenly crossing every lane of the freeway, with me right in her way. Her maneuver was very aggressive and very sudden, and her back bumper was about two feet behind my front bumper when she began crossing my lane at a steep angle going about 45 mph slower than I was going.

Other than swerve or plow into her, battering-ram style, what would you suggest I do? Alternatively, what could I have done differently to avoid being in her way to begin with?

I fully agree that bad drivers, and not the vehicles, are to blame. But I also believe it is a fallacy to think that bad drivers are incapable of involving even the best drivers in the accidents they cause. Accidents happen even to the best drivers, thanks to the persistence and seemingly unlimited creativity of the bad drivers out there. I don't believe it's possible to be completely immune because of defensive driving skills alone.

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Gordon, thanks for your posts to this thread. Though I disagree that running cars on water by cracking/recombining the H-O bond is a viable technology, I do agree that research should continue on a great number of things despite less-than-stellar results so far. I appreciate your lighthearted approach and topical contributions.

 

[Drew Bethel]

>>Did you ever think that maybe this is because a) People leave the sedan/mini-van at home (in the case of a 2 car family) and drive the SUV that day because THERE WAS A HEAVY SNOWFALL or b) People who only own a sedan/mini-van stayed at home because THERE WAS A HEAVY SNOWFALL?

 

[Kevin G.]

C'mon Jeff, be reasonable, I think we can agree that most SUV drivers travel at a much faster pace in inclimate weather, because they can!!! Now, has your avereage soccer mom been informed by her dealer that they will not be able to stop in a normal distance in same said weather?
NO!!!, They have been upsold on all the beneficial features of the vehicle. Not its pitfalls.

 

[Mike Lenthol]

Not only do SUVs flip over, but they also control minds! The same person in a sedan would drive responsible of course. It becomes all clear now.

 

[MikeSerrano]

To steer the thread (somewhat) back on topic (pun intended), I submit the following article:

Hybrid Milage Comes Up Short


-Mike

 

[Kevin G.]

The point is, the same person in a sedan would not be able to travel as fast...(mind control not withstanding.)

 

[Mike Lenthol]

Fact #1 dismissing that SUVs are unsafe when compared to cars

“According to death-rate statistics compiled by the Highway Loss Data Institute, an insurance industry research group. In an accident, you're 18% less likely to die in a typical midsize utility than in the average car, truck or van. In the two top-selling utilities, Explorer and Jeep Grand Cherokee, your risk is cut in half.”

Fact #2 dismissing that weight plays little role vs. safety features

“A 1998 study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, an insurance industry research group, found that when a car collides with an SUV or pickup, the car's occupants are about four times more likely to die than the people in the bigger, heavier vehicle.”

Fact #3 dismissing that they pose a HIGH risk to cars

“The same study found that only 4% of passenger-car fatalities were the result of crashes with SUVs, even though SUVs make up 10% to 15% of the vehicles on the road.”

Fact #4 dismissing that SUVs have any noticeable effect on the environment

“Emissions from all new vehicles account for only about 2% of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions. More than 50% comes from factories and electric power plants.”

This is all only a discussion folks, take it as such. If you don't learn anything new, then consider it typing practice

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Anecdotal of course, but just within my own family, I have 3 sisters and 2 brothers, plus myself who either own a 4x4 and a family car (sedan or mini-van) or a 4x4 alone. Trust me, they do not opt for the family car when the snow is flying and they do know how to drive them. I have a sister, a "soccer mom" (yuck, hate that term, she's a "hockey mom", a "ballet mom" or a "figure skating mom"), who lived in the Pacific Northwest that could show everyone a thing or two about driving on ice, never mind snow, in an SUV. Don't blame the machine for the fault of the driver.

Now excuse me while I go play in my brand new (today) Jeep Wrangler Sahara. Don't worry, I'll be sure to try and downplay any feelings of "invincibility" as I'm tearing down the beach.

Owned a Jeep for 7 years and haven't rolled it yet!

 

[MikeSerrano]

(I promised myself I would not get sucked into this debate... oh, well)


This is, no doubt, due to the weather-sensitive speed governor secretly present on all sedans?

-Mike

 

[Kevin G.]

C'mon Mike, how many sedans that you know of that incorporate 4wd??? which, (the last I checked,) allowed better drive traction on ice and snow covered roads due to torque being transferred to both axles. The answer is very few.

If you read my earlier post, I said MOST SUV drivers, and MOST SUV's are 4wd, they can travel faster, and usually do.

 

[MikeSerrano]

The problem is that some people who drive SUVs think that just the rules of physics do not apply to them. This is also true of people who drive sports cars, sedans, and work-beaters. I see plenty of people driving too fast for weather conditions, and it's not just people in SUVs.

-Mike

 

[Kevin G.]

Thank you, which is exactly the point I've been trying to convey...RE:httphttp://www.hometheaterforum.com...l about the selfishness of most people today.

 

[Erik.Ha]

All the time... which is why I want to be in a vehicle that provides a great deal of crash protection... Im not immune from being hit by someone... I just dont drive in a way that will result in ME causing a wreck. When people change lanes in front of me, or even into me, IM EXPECTING THEM TOO... THATS HOW I DRIVE... I don't have my ear on the phone, Im not reading a book, or thinking about work... the thoughts that go through my mind is "what is this A-hole going to do??? Will this A-hole pull into me??? Will he stop unexpectedly??? Is he eating a donut??? Is he talking on the cellphone and paying no attention to me???" (yes, if you have driven by me, I have thought of you as an A-hole, and a potentially hostile driver... I GIVE NOBODY the benefit of the doubt on the road... NOR SHOULD YOU!) and oh yeah "Thousand One, Thousand Two, Thousand Three." To avoid the other guy, I honk my horn when they drift into me, slow down when I think they're idiots, and make sure I don't drive in other people's blind spots. Nobody has ever pulled out in front of me to the degree that I have to take evasive action to avoid, unless you consider tapping my brake to slow down "evasive."

As far as someone turning from the wrong lane in front of me, now you're talking about around the town driving... This has never happened to me, but again, Im not going to use my steering wheel, Im going to use my brake... and my speed isnt such in the city that my car is going to suddenly start flipping down the road from the minor fender bender you describe... This has resulted in me not getting into a single accident with another vehicle (I did accidently bump into a pilar in a dark parking garage once... oops, that cost $300 to fix and still agravates me that I was that stupid) or a single moving violation (I got pulled over once for not having a front license plate) in 18 years of driving. My wife's record is similar, except that she got rear ended while sitting at a stop light once.

And for those of you who think I drive like a pussy... I OWN A RACE CAR. I have a 1990 BMW M3 that is completely converted to J-stock classification. Thats right, ITS FAST AS HELL... Want to guess WHERE I drive it???

A RACE TRACK.


I have an interesting question though for all those who say the SUV is unsafe... Is it REALLY safety that bothers you? Or is that just an ancilary argument because you DONT LIKE THE SUV? Obviously, you don't have to drive one... So it shouldn't bother you that theyre likely to roll... Your family wont be in one when it does.... And if its their size and disparity in a crash, why do you stop with SUVs??? Why not tractor trailers (which ARE REALLY Unfair in a wreck) or fire engines or buses, or garbage trucks, or any of the other HUGE vehicles that frequent our roads? Finally, if Hydrogen fuel cells WERE the norm, would you still hate SUVs? Or would they be just fine and dandy then?

 

[Joe Szott]

I've heard of road rage, but thread rage? Let's cool down a bit folks, it's just a bunch of friends BS'ing here. After Hours Forum baby, after hours...

 

[Mike Lenthol]

 

[DaveGTP]

It was not the existence of the SUV that bugged us, I think. The discussion was about SUVs and large vehicles being safer.

The comment that you NEVER need to swerve to avoid an accident is ridiculous. A few people have commented on exactly the kind of situations that create the need to dodge.

Those were some good safety statistics about SUV safety above. I don't think they are particularly worse than any other vehicle, I just don't think they are particulary better either. Everything has a tradeoff somewhere. With SUVs, you perhaps get a bit more impact protection vs less agility. I personally prefer the active protection (handling) vs the reactive protection (crumple zones, airbags).




All I can say is DEER. DEER. DEER. You know how many frickin' deer I've swerved around? I dodged a deer at 70 MPH on the freeway (that's the speedlimit here on the freeway) in the dark, and I was amazed I didn't hit it. I stopped along the freeway and got out to check, because I swore I had to have at least clipped it a little. I'm surprised that there wasn't some deer fur somewhere!


Just because you have to swerve doesn't make it a blind jerking of the wheel. I generally know exactly what cars are around me, and I swerve very little on snowy and icy roads where it would get me in trouble.

I am a very attentive driver - I think much more attentive than most - looking ahead, behind, and around constantly - but I don't have the arrogance to maintain that I am SO attentive that I will NEVER have to swerve to avoid someone or something in the road. That's impossible.

 

[BrianW]

What Dave Said. Having said that, show me an SUV that gets great mileage or runs on a hydrogen fuel cell, and I'll consider buying it. Though safety certainly comes first, mileage is also an important consideration to me. (Did I mention that I drive a CRX? )

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Hybrids are great, but you have to consider what your driving habits will be. Very short trips to the corner store or long trips at highway speeds will likely have a devastating effect on your mileage. Stop-and-go, low-average-speed city driving is where hybrids excel, which is counter-intuitive to people not familiar with the technology.

Edit: If Mazda made a hybrid version of the RX8, I'd finally have a reason to dump my CRX.