FUNNY FACE and SABRINA Eye Popping Blu-rays (1 Viewer)

[bigshot]

In case anyone is interested, I'm viewing using an Epson 8500UB and a 120 inch screen. I'm sitting at a reasonable distance from the screen. Six feet from a 120 inch screen is too close. Nothing will look good that way. It should be double that for the first row. Optimal is 15 feet.
To me, the most important aspects of image quality, and the ones that don't get discussed enough, is the contrast and color balance. I have blurays that were well reviewed (Keaton's Steamboat Bill Jr in particular) that are unwatchable to me because they're washed out (or have opaque shadows). Grain is the biggest problem when it's clumping and freezing from over compression. That's much more common on DVD than it is on bluray. As long as it keeps moving, i's fine.
I've noticed grain smoothing on a few titles... Evil Dead II and especially Texas Chain Saw Massacre. If it's lightly applied and consistent, it's no problem to me. It can actually help a bit. But when the level of grain smoothing varies from scene to scene, like TCM, it becomes very annoying.
I've seen reviews critical of several classic movies, and I shake my head. How much better do they expect American in Paris to look? When I think back to the wildly varying image quality I experienced watching these films on late night TV or in revival houses, I want to get down on my knees and thank the Gods for transfers like Zulu or Funny Face.
I held off for a long time buying the That's Entertainment box because of Amazon reviews saying it was no better than the DVD or laserdisc. Finally, it went on sale and I couldn't resist. The image quality varied in the film because of the age of some ofthe clips! Singing in the Rain and Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas looked stunning.
Everything is relative. Some things are excellent and others are just very good. But some people have no perspective and talk as if very good is horrible. If I always demanded perfection I'd never be happy with anything.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by bigshot /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/60#post_3951661
I've seen reviews critical of several classic movies, and I shake my head. How much better do they expect American in Paris to look? When I think back to the wildly varying image quality I experienced watching these films on late night TV or in revival houses, I want to get down on my knees and thank the Gods for transfers like Zulu or Funny Face.

I have screencaps taken directly off the Zulu disc, they can show you the edge enhancement applied after the grain filter removed the fine film grain and they needed to apply the sharpening, that's at my site, just put Zulu into the search engine and check it out, you either spot these things or you don't, oh wait, screencaps are evil, not to me they are not, not when they come directly off a disc and can show things like edge enhancement. I see this clearly on my projection setup before taking the caps, some of us have a lot of perspective.

 

[Bob Cashill]

I have the ZULU Blu-ray, I've looked at your screen captures--and I think it all looks terrific. Can you isolate a specific screen capture and tell us what's incorrect?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Bob Cashill /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/60#post_3951684
I have the ZULU Blu-ray, I've looked at your screen captures--and I think it all looks terrific. Can you isolate a specific screen capture and tell us what's incorrect?

Take a look at this one.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/wp-content/images/zulu_pics/zulu_22.jpg?9d7bd4

 

[John Hermes]

In case anyone is interested, I'm viewing using an Epson 8500UB and a 120 inch screen. I'm sitting at a reasonable distance from the screen. Six feet from a 120 inch screen is too close. Nothing will look good that way. It should be double that for the first row. Optimal is 15 feet.
To me, the most important aspects of image quality, and the ones that don't get discussed enough, is the contrast and color balance. I have blurays that were well reviewed (Keaton's Steamboat Bill Jr in particular) that are unwatchable to me because they're washed out (or have opaque shadows). Grain is the biggest problem when it's clumping and freezing from over compression. That's much more common on DVD than it is on bluray. As long as it keeps moving, i's fine.
I've noticed grain smoothing on a few titles... Evil Dead II and especially Texas Chain Saw Massacre. If it's lightly applied and consistent, it's no problem to me. It can actually help a bit. But when the level of grain smoothing varies from scene to scene, like TCM, it becomes very annoying.
I've seen reviews critical of several classic movies, and I shake my head. How much better do they expect American in Paris to look? When I think back to the wildly varying image quality I experienced watching these films on late night TV or in revival houses, I want to get down on my knees and thank the Gods for transfers like Zulu or Funny Face.
I held off for a long time buying the That's Entertainment box because of Amazon reviews saying it was no better than the DVD or laserdisc. Finally, it went on sale and I couldn't resist. The image quality varied in the film because of the age of some ofthe clips! Singing in the Rain and Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas looked stunning.
Everything is relative. Some things are excellent and others are just very good. But some people have no perspective and talk as if very good is horrible. If I always demanded perfection I'd never be happy with anything.

I agree with a lot you've said. I have a DLP projector with a 120" 2.35 screen and a 106" 16x9. I have had 16mm and even 35mm projectors and film collections in the past, so it's not like I don't know what film looks like. I like grain, too, when it's tight and uniform like Kodachrome. I guess we can keep going back and forth here with the Zulu BD (which I own) and Funny Face (which I haven't seen). I suppose some aspects of a transfer bug some people more than others. I used to think guitar players were the pickiest people I knew, but they are far surpassed by home theater enthusiasts. An image is a very subjective thing and there are going to be times when people will just not agree.

 

[haineshisway]

Take a look at this one.
http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/wp-content/images/zulu_pics/zulu_22.jpg?9d7bd4

Not that that cap actually resembles what I'm watching, but I see a lot of detail there. I see it the wall textures, I see it in the straw. Looks like a large format image harvest to me.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by haineshisway /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/60#post_3951812
Not that that cap actually resembles what I'm watching, but I see a lot of detail there. I see it the wall textures, I see it in the straw. Looks like a large format image harvest to me.

Its what is on the disc, it is exactly what you are seeing, it looks nothing like a large format image harvest, the detail is not there.

 

[haineshisway]

Its what is on the disc, it is exactly what you are seeing, it looks nothing like a large format image harvest, the detail is not there.

Sorry, won't play. I don't know how you do caps, I don't care how you do caps, it is irrelevant to me. I watch the movie and the move that I watch called Zulu looks like a large format harvest - it may not be perfect, but it has a lot of detail and looks, at times, spectacular. You can feel how you like, but you're not going to convince those of us (I am not alone here) who think it looks terrific that we should suddenly think it sucks because of a screen cap.
HOWEVER, what is on the cap you posted, has detail. How can you deny that it has detail? I just don't get it. It's a cap and it doesn't have the detail it has when I watch in motion, but if you think that cap has been completely scrubbed of all detail I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Bob Cashill]

Looks good to me, too. My eye beholds sufficient detail.

 

[haineshisway]

Looks good to me, too. My eye beholds sufficient detail.

We're not crazy, Bob.

 

[OliverK]

[...] and there are going to be times when people will just not agree.

Amen to that! I will leave the debate at this point.
@Foxy: I can confirm that my caps look just like yours, still have them on my PC dating back from 2008 when I bought Zulu.
We should try to get together in order to do a thread about screencaps at some point but that is for another day.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by haineshisway /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/60#post_3951891
Sorry, won't play. I don't know how you do caps, I don't care how you do caps, it is irrelevant to me. I watch the movie and the move that I watch called Zulu looks like a large format harvest - it may not be perfect, but it has a lot of detail and looks, at times, spectacular. You can feel how you like, but you're not going to convince those of us (I am not alone here) who think it looks terrific that we should suddenly think it sucks because of a screen cap.
HOWEVER, what is on the cap you posted, has detail. How can you deny that it has detail? I just don't get it. It's a cap and it doesn't have the detail it has when I watch in motion, but if you think that cap has been completely scrubbed of all detail I don't know what to tell you.

I do caps directly off the disc with all computer enhancements switched off so as not to affect disc quality, my caps are true to the source and are certainly much better than any DVD Beaver produce, as for "detail" that scene is edge enhanced, you don't see it, well that explains a lot to me. Yes we disagree on this, we always will so let's now move on.

P.S. I don't suddenly think it "sucks" because of a screen cap, i saw the fillm first and then produced the screen caps.

 

[hguerth]

In the Dark Ages of VHS I wasn't in the habit of collecting videos - because of their poor quality. In the first decade of 21st century - i.e. in the Golden Age of DVD - this suddenly has changed. An emerging plague has befallen some of us, with the symptoms of empty pockets and crammed shelves. The current prancing of high-definition into our homes now has altered the humble collector's question from "Do I really need to own this movie?" to "Is it worth upgrading?".
And never before was it so important to be able to share viewer's experiences. This thread concerns the European editions of "Funny Face" and "Sabrina". But all I read about is "Zulu" and "Zulu" again. There
are two Zulu-Threads. Wouldn't it be appropriate to post there? It has become slightly tiresome to peruse some threads, except the title begins with "A few words about" - then indeed suffices to read the very 1st contribution.
But back to "Funny Face". I recommended the French BD. In the meantime I compared the image with the so-called Centennial DVD edition (2009) which already was a vast improvement on their predecessors.
The new Blu-ray is remarkably superior in sharpness and this was not reached by DNR. I assume it's the same scan but a better mastering in 1080p.
I don't trust the screen caps on the Caps-a-holic site, because I'm unable to see any difference which I can see very well on my screen. But maybe their (Caps-a-holic's) indication of the total bitrate is correct: 40 Mbps. Isn't that something?
In the colour department I could not remark big differences, but IMHO the last DVD was "eye popping" enough.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by hguerth /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/90#post_3952390
I don't trust the screen caps on the Caps-a-holic site, because I'm unable to see any difference which I can see very well on my screen.

You can clearly see a resolution difference at the cap-a-holics site. Look at the newspaper article, see the text and the resolution is clearly higher on the Blu ray.

You are clicking for the rollover aren't you. ? Roll your mouse on and off the image to compare the two.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=12252&cap2=12244&art=full&image=7&cID=1154&action=1&lossless=#vergleich

 

[hguerth]

I must admit that there is a difference (but not one that could induce me to buy the BD).

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by hguerth /t/320526/funny-face-and-sabrina-eye-popping-blu-rays/90#post_3952403
I must admit that there is a difference (but not one that could induce me to buy the BD).

I'm confused because i thought your post said you already bought or at least have viewed it. ?

 

[haineshisway]

I do caps directly off the disc with all computer enhancements switched off so as not to affect disc quality, my caps are true to the source and are certainly much better than any DVD Beaver produce, as for "detail" that scene is edge enhanced, you don't see it, well that explains a lot to me.  Yes we disagree on this, we always will so let's now move on.
P.S. I don't suddenly think it "sucks" because of a screen cap, i saw the fillm first and then produced the screen caps.

And your seeing what you call edge enhancement explains a lot to me - funny how that works? Have you handled film? Have you been around large format elements? Do you know what grain looks like on a large format element? Just curious. In any case, I see detail, you see detail - you attribute the detail to edge enhancement, even though you were commenting on the extreme use of DNR removing all the detail. You can't have it all ways from Sunday. But there's not point in going on about it and, as someone has pointed out, this thread is about Funny Face.

 

[hguerth]

As it needs a clarification: Yes, I bought the Blu-ray. Yes, I am very content with it. But the screen shots on the site you refer to were not helpful in this decision.
Maybe I should have registered earlier on the bitrate - mentioned by your site - that it is such a sensational one. Now I'm beginning to understand why caps do not in any case truefully represent the picture in moving. After all it' s a movie, a motion picture we are talking about.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Oh and stop going on about it then and i will stop replying. I'm all for the moderators moving our posts about Zulu ( and replies ) to the Zulu thread.

 

[Mark Oates]

Would you like me to hold your coat, Mr Bruce?