From low watts to high watts

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Allen Marshall, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    my reciever is 75x6, out of curosity, if i had a 200x6 amp, would there be any noticeable differences, for example my speakers can handle alot more watts then my reciever can give out so will it sound better trying to get a high volume out of the 200 then the 75 or same, i know it'd be easier on the 200 to give 50 watts then for the 75 to give 50 but it seems like when the volume gets high it has trouble, kinda hard to explain you just know it is, like my 100x5 reciever has bookshelves, and they go louder easier and in a sense clearer or atleast better then my floorstandings which beat the bookshelves in quality any day of the week, seems like my floorstandings have trouble earlier and at a lower volume then my speakers on my other reciever do. Im wonderin if it could just be me cause of how the bookshelves well...dont know how to describe that sound and the floorstandings have that fuller sound. I hear some people talk about there like recievers from like 70-100 watts a channel and there like "these things rock hard, i get noise complaints all the time" and mine couldnt do that if there life depended on it and i cant put them any louder cause it feels like they cant. You'd probably wonder why i wouldnt use the other reciever, its cause it's only got Pro Logic, its 5 channels and it turns off alot..which im not exactly sure why, the other day i managed to turn my reciever off for the first time while listening to music. I think a good example of how loud i actually turn it up is i can still hear myself talk at a normal volume when im like 5 feet away from the speakers. Is my reciever turning off cause my speakers cant take it or cause it cant take it, i can just tell im not gettin close to what my speakers can do its just one of those things yah can tell when you listen to it, kinda frustrating cause i dont know if im hurting my speakers, hurting my reciever, givin it crappy power,or just 50% deaf. I seem to be able to get the speakers alittle bit louder if i turn the bass down on the reciever cause the subs get worked when i listen to music like they usually start flabbin out by the end of Lux Aeterna. Music is loudest in 6ch stereo but it's kind of annoying how the rear has a different kind of sound then the front and how i usually have my bass turned up alittle bit cause at 0 there's nothing there.

    Another huge thing i've been wondering about is my volume goes from 0 to 99, 0 being loudest and the loudest i've had music is like 22, would 0 be 75 watts? i hope not cause my speakers would probably start to distort at 15 by my guess, and after 22 i have to start turning the bass down so i dont blow them, i keep my bass at +10 until i hit like 30 then i'll move it down to +6 or +4 depending on what song, and if i would dare go below 22 i would put it to 0 or lower and it wouldnt sound good but not in a distortion kind of way, in another way.

    Most frustrating thing is i like to listen to music loud and forceful and i know im not tryin to get it ridiculously loud andddd im gettin a new amp soon but that still leaves my questions, for one i'd expect more out of a floorstanding speaker of the AS-F2's......calibur, i dont know how much bass im supposed to expect from four 8" subs and two 5" and one 8" (6.1) but i know im a bass freak in serious need of a sub.
     
  2. Nathan Stohler

    Nathan Stohler Second Unit

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    I think adding a sub would definitely help. It takes a lot of power to create those low frequencies, but deferring them to a dedicated, powered subwoofer would take a load off your receiver. You will notice a HUGE difference when watching movies.

    As for why your bookshelves sound better at higher volumes, they may be more efficient. In other words, if given one watt of power, they might be at 90 dB from a meter away, whereas your mains might be rated at 86 dB.
     
  3. John S

    John S Producer

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    Beware too.. Really clean audio is much louder than perceived, distortion makes a system perceived louder by many.


    With very clean audio, you would be surprised how loud it can be and still be able to somewhat mantain a conversation.


    Otherwise, it could be a simple speaker efficiency thing.
     
  4. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Allen,
    It sounds like you are driving your receiver into clipping. You need to fix alot of things it appears and you should start with proper calibration first.

    1. Go buy a copy of Avia .. cost around $35
    2. Go to Radio Shack and pick up an SPL meter(analog is nice).
    3. Run Test Tones and equal out the levels.

    No. Ignore the watts for the time being and calibrate your system. It seems that you are getting all too caught up in somethings and getting yourself confused ALOT.
     
  5. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Shane's summary is well thought out and should be investigated before you go any further.
     
  6. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    Fronts have 93db effeciency and rears have 90db. Where do i get this Avia thing? Just the other day i realized how big of a difference that speaker distance option on the reciever is, when i play video games and i lean forward i can hear the fronts more then the backs but if i lean back and sit straight it's all getting there to sametime and if i lay my head back (which i like to do) i can hear the rears better then the fronts and sometimes makes it alittle difficult to figure out what direction there commin from, my rear center is like 3ft away from me and my rears are about 4ft on an angle. Right now i have it on Fronts 7ft, Center 7ft, Rear Center, 2ft, Rear 3ft, cause i sit back more then i sit forward and when i sit back, well when you shoot in most games it comes out of every speaker but i only hear it come out of the rear, kinda bewildering.

    My speaker level bars are like this, line representing where i have it now. It doesnt let me change front level.

    Center ----------|----------

    Rears ------------------|--

    Rear C ------------------|--

    There's a line in the middle of each bar which i chose not to put in there respresenting middle or...0 or which ever, i didnt put them all on the line cause when i do the sound test the center is so much louder then the rears, but the center in the middle is just about the same as the fronts.

    Bass: +10 (I only keep it that high when the volume isnt very loud)

    Treble: 0

    Every Speaker is set to Large

    Bass: Mains

    Center EQ: is set to 0 on each frequency

    My speakers are alittle uneven but i dont have a choice at the time, like my rear left is lined up with my front left but my rear right is like 3 or 4ft out there cause then my rears would be to close and i like having a rear center (which is sitting on a pooltable!) And i like making it so it sounds good for all 3 seats on the couch cause i just realized something, my home theater is used for 50% games, 25% for movies and 25% for music. But thats basically cause cant afford to get a bunch of movies every week.

    If anybody has suggestions on the way i got my reciever stuff setup which i stated please help.
     
  7. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    Is there anyway in this crazy universe i can hook my Klipsch sub on my computer from my promedia 5.1 to my HT system cause if you go here http://www.athenaspeakers.com/create.htm

    and then do the create your own sound thing and then put your mouse over the subwoofer it does that deeeeeeeeooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuu thing where it gets deeper and deeper. I did that with my sub and it only has two 6.5" subs in there and it shook the whole room to death, the door was wobblin the vent was makin an annoying vibrating noise. I showed it to my sister and half way through she goes "STOP, STOP STOP!" and rushed out of the room cause it's nerve racking. Can my floorstandings not do that cause there only gettin 75 watts or can they not do that cause bottomline there not subwoofers.

    Is there some kind of cd i can get with cool noises such as that subwoofer one, or something that shows you how cool surround sound is by doin a bunch of 3D effects or what not?
     
  8. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Ok lots of confusion here and lots of answers I hope..
    There is a telarc cd that doesn't use surround effects but the overall sound will bottom out alot of subwoofers so don't crank it up. The cd warns against it.

    So to summarize:
    Calibrate your system with an SPL meter atleast at the minimum. Personally I'd get AVIA to go along with it to tweak your video. Very handy disc that should be in any enthusiasts hands.

    2. Buy a subwoofer soon. As bad as you are torturing your speakers, something might quit forcing you to upgrade. If you can't upgrade anytime soon, Make do w/o and realize what you really need. Do I need a video game or do I need a great subwoofer? All it takes is about $600 and even then you must calibrate it so even at that point get an SPL meter and the AVIA disc.
     
  9. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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  10. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    Where do i get the AVIA disc
     
  11. Allen Marshall

    Allen Marshall Supporting Actor

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    im gonna get new fronts and a center in about a year and its gonna be a huge step up from my $250 center and $600 fronts, then my center and fronts will be rears and my rears will probably be put on my family home theater until i have a use for 7.1 setup

    Sorry about the none edits, didnt occur to me until i posted the 3rd one. My bad!
     
  12. Nathan Stohler

    Nathan Stohler Second Unit

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    I bought Avia from amazon.com, but you may be able to find it cheaper somewhere else.
     
  13. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    I've seen avia everywhere from Best Buy to the CD store at the mall to Circuit City. If you wish to go online, most of the dvd etailers should carry it.

    Radio Shack is however the only source of an SPL meter.

    Your upgrades look good for choices... just make sure that you plan to include some calibration stuff in that purchase [​IMG]
     

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