From 5.1 to 6.1 or 7.1? (1 Viewer)

[Cameron_Peck]

How accurately can a 7.1 receiver or pre/pro recreate a 6.1 soundtrack? I am trying to decide which way to go with my system. Is there 7.1 material coming? What about 8.1?
If 6.1 was developed to improve rear sound image, how can a 7.1 system (with 2 rear speakers) recreate this better than a 5.1 system? I’m sure that it improves pans from front to back, but doesn’t this still leave a hole in the rear? I don’t want to buy a piece of hardware 2 or 3 months before a new format comes out.

 

[Cameron_Peck]

Any thoughts?

 

[Frank Zimkas]

I have never had a 6.1 setup, I went from 5.1 straight to 7.1 and really like the effect.
My wife recently bought the Blade II DVD for me which contains the DTS-ES track and I sounds great on my system! As far as I know there are no DVD's out that contain a true 7.1 soundtrack, but don't let that stop you. IMHO everything sounds better in 7.1 compared to 5.1.

 

[Holger]

hi cameron,


don't let the number of power amps or speakers fool you. if you want a real 7.1 system you only will get it with the harman kardon avr 8000 or a lexicon pre/pro.

it is sad to see, that the industry nearly 100% describes
the term *7.1* wrong. a receiver like the denon avr 3802 for example, is a 6.1 receiver regardless of its 7 build-in amps. the left and right back-surround having exactly the same (mono)signal, therefore it MUST be considered as 6.1
unit and system.

only, i repeat, only if the two back-surrounds running in stereo it can be spoken of a 7.1 system. and the only two companies which offer such a technique are harman kardon and lexicon (with exception of the meridian pre/pros).




regards, holger

 

[Wes]

only, i repeat, only if the two back-surrounds running in stereo it can be spoken of a 7.1 system. and the only

But then the logic 7 is only creating the "so called" 7.1 out of a 2.0, 5.1 or a 6.1 source using DSP processing, so in fact it is only 6.1 at most. Dolby Digital EX is only 5.1 also!

And what I would like to know "that no one has been able to explain" about Logic 7 is that when 5.1 soundtracks was the norm Logic 7 created new side surrounds leaving the back surrounds as the original surrounds. Now with EX/ES having the same amount and placement of speakers how did Logic 7 change to still create their logic 7 sound and encompass EX/ES. Are you really hearing EX/ES or is it still Logic 7. It seems to me if it was logic 7 it would need two more speakers at the side!

I am assuming they still use the side surrounds as their own created channels(created out of mixing the front L/R and the two surrounds using a matrixed type decoding), and then place the original surrounds in the back two channels. But then should there not be a one more channel between them for the EX/ES sounds?

Please enlighten me Logic 7 fans, I'm not talking down Logic 7 just would like to know how this works!

Wes

 

[Kevin C Brown]

THX Ultra2 also has "stereo" rears.

And, even for "6.1" soundtracks, 2 rears (even if both are mono) are are usually preferred to 1 to "spread" the rear soundfield out so as to not be too localizeable to just 1 speaker.

 

[Holger]

hi wes,



i don't know how exactly those lexicon guys doing the job on logic7 decoding and i assume not much persons in the av business do either. if they would, and i'm talking about design engineers and people like that, then why is no one coming even close to lexicons 7.1 decoding scheme? and why is a highly praised and well known high-end manufacturer like mark levinson for example, so mad about to have their newest pre/pro logic7 certified instead of developing something similar to logic7 by their own?

what i know is that there is a huge difference between dolby ex/dts es and logic7. only when a source was specially encoded in ex/es it will sound properly when played back in those modes with collapsing the (side)surrounds in the (back)surround(s). regardless what kind of material i ever watched/listened to, be it a 2channel analog signal or a 5.1/6.1 digital signal it always worked perfect - at least to my ears - in the logic7 mode.

and logic7 is the the only surround mode to my knowledge, which is capable to steer the four surrounds completely independent and pan a specific sound from one surround speaker to whatever another surround speaker in all directions you can think of.

a word to kevin: thx ultra2 do NOT work with stereo surrounds rather then putting a decorrelated signal in the two back surrounds. this is the same technique that thx always used for their surround speakers in the dolby surround era and helps to create a wider and more spacious surround field out of a mono signal. nevertheless, also in thx ultra2, the back surrounds stays mono although the signal is spreaded out trough phase shifts.




regards, holger

 

[Kevin C Brown]

thx ultra2 do NOT work with stereo surrounds rather then putting a decorrelated signal in the two back surrounds.

Holger- No kidding. I was simply trying to point out that the 2 signals that end up in the L + R rear speakers for THX Ultra2 are *not* the same. More people understand "stereo" (meaning: not the same, vs "mono", meaning exactly the same) vs de-correlated.

In my mind, 7.1 from Logic 7 vs 7.1 from THX Ultra2 ain't no diff. You still *creating* 7.1 unique signals from 5.1.