*** FOX goes PAN&SCAN? 10 Fox discs re-released in MARCH (1 Viewer)

[Eric Huffstutler]

I too am an advocate of W I D E S C R E E N versions.
I am also a BIG fan of extras!
But no one has touch on the fact that if studios do offer "both" formats on two separate releases, then more money has to be spent on masters, pressing, and packaging them. This also means extra stock sitting around.
With that in mind, this could slow down new releases because of budget issues!
Why can't the studios and player manufacturers come together to develop a single disc that can be based on Widescreen but like someone else pointed out, be an option thru the player to watch the movie in P&S without resorting to taking up the second side of a disc or a separate release? This to me would save money all the way around and satisfy everyone!
Of course that idea would fall mainly on the studios because I doubt that 12 million people are going to rush right out and replace their player just to have this feature?
But if they can come up with ways to have branching and gimicks like Shrek's Revoice Studio as part of the regular DVD, then why can't they come up with a simple solution for dual WS and P&S?

 

[Dan M]

Philip G.,

. I continue to stand
on the issue that the studios should have made their
own 1-2 minute promos on the benefits of widescreen
and placed them at the beginning of all their titles.

It's funny you mention that regarding FOX.
I have a WIDESCREEN version of THE ABYSS on VHS (released by FOX a couple of years ago) that DOES explain the advantages of OAR over P&S. It's a little widescreen promo that starts when you first pop in the tape along with a documentary about the film.
In fact, it's one of the best demonstrations I've ever seen. It's quick, easy to understand and shows exactly how much picture is 'cropped' in order to fill someone's tv.
I think it would be in FOX's best interest to dig up that little widescreen promo again for all their OAR releases in addition to/instead of the current catalogue promo they have now.

 

[Steve Felix]

PhilipG, that is a great picture.

Pan and scan releases directly counter education efforts, and tell J6P that p&s is a valid preference.

The war can't really be won or lost. There will always be Criterion-like companies for us and Walmart-like companies for the mass of people who don't respect art. What we really fight for are convenience, price, and our altruistic desire for everyone to appreciate movies in the way we do, not availability. This is a loss of ground in that fight, which we must expect when we get a miracle gain of ground like DVD.

Widescreen TVs will only help by causing the light bulb to come on above the heads of those who don't even understand that there are different ARs; there will still be a group that wants to fill the screen -- especially after the propaganda gets out that they're burning their screen unevenly.

I hope I'm not too optimistic in my belief that widescreen can't go away at this point...

 

[Jim_K]

I'm very disappointed with FOX. If Mr. Staddon is as enthusiastic as some say about OAR (I don't know the man personally so I can't say) and his department was pressured into this then you can expect the other major studios to follow suit. This is a very bad sign of the future of this format.
I realize these studios are a business and they are out to make a profit. However their business is unlike many other businesses for the one fact that they are selling works of art. The fact that these studios have such a lack of respect for their own product that they would butcher it in order to make even bigger products is reprehensible to me as an appreciator of cinema asart. The defense of these studio’s stances has always been “They are a business and a business is out to make a profit”. This does not cut it for me because we aren’t talking about selling athletic shoes or range ovens we are talking about works of art, some of which has had a major impact on our culture.
I don’t agree with Mr. Crawford’s statement that the blame should fall to Wal-Mart either. It’s not these discount stores responsibility to educate their customers on the benefits of Widescreen. All they know is that their return department is probably swamped with opened DVD’s returned for those nasty black bars. The blame here falls into the laps of the Studios (including FOX). The DVD format has been around for 5 years now and there has never been any sort of campaign from the studios in order to educate people. It could have been something as simple as Point-Of-Purchase materials to give to these discount stores.
I’m taking FOX as an example here since they are the main topic of this thread.
What have they done to educate mass-market consumers besides a little extra Widescreen comparison on their Die Hard release? The answer is:
Nothing
The boogeyman here is not Joe 6-pack or Wal-Mart rather it’s these studio’s ineptness in failing to educate consumers while they were pushing this format into the mass-market.
Jim

 

[Mark Booth]

BTW, I also look forward to the day (probably around 2005 or 2006) when Joe Six Pack returns a DVD to WalMart to complain about the black SIDE bars on his new 16:9 TV!
Mark

 

[Matt_Marlow]

Like most of you, this is very disappointing to me too. But here's what I'd like to see: I'd like for the pan & scan releases to be movie-only, no extras, not even a trailer. The widescreen version could contain all the extras: director's commentary, documentary, trailers, etc. Like has already been mentioned, the true collectors are the ones who are interested in the extra material, while the pan and scan versions will mainly be purchased by casual viewers...and more often than not, the disc will simply be rented. This would be a good opportunity for people to start thinking of the widescreen versions as the "ultimate" copy of a film, rather than the equivalent of a higher resolution VHS tape.

Still, I maintain that if the standard had been set, early in the format's life, of dual PS/OAR versions on the same disc, every time, which is possible, this wouldn't even be an issue now and we could all worry about other things. And I do understand the arguments against double-sided discs, but I just think it's a reasonable alternative that would be generally accepted without question if it had become the standard from the start. If DVDs were OAR only, would I complain? Hell no, but unfortunately it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Michael Moulton]

Ron said most everything I was thinking.

But one thing... if the retailers are pressuring the studios, the studios need to just say no. Wal-Mart is NOT going to stop selling Fox DVDs just b/c Fox only provides OAR. That would be financial suicide for Wal-Mart.

IMHO, Universal caused these problems with their big selection of P&S/OAR seperate releases. Now the retailers think they can bully the other studios into it.

Every time I walk into a store (Wal-Mart, Best Buy, CC, Target... any of them) around here on Tuesday evenings or Wednesdays... the OAR versions of new releases are mostly sold (empty racks, proving they _did_ stock a lot), and the P&S are sitting there gathering dust.

Multiple times I have even seen someone returning a P&S they accidentally picked up and getting OAR! There was even a clip of someone in early January who was exchanging the P&S JP3 he got for Christmas... and told all of NBC's viewers that he wanted widescreen!

The fact is: DVD became popular as a mostly OAR-only format. It will stay popular as an OAR-only format. Retailers can't afford to NOT have the new releases... so if the studios say "OAR only" the retailers will sell OAR only and that's that.

 

[GlennH]

I'm sure it was a business decision, but it stinks and is hypocritical.

Out of one side of their mouth Fox has a promo extolling the virtues of OAR. Then out of the other side they're saying, in effect, "but we don't want to leave a dollar on the table so we'll compromise our principles and sell a butchered version too."

The studios are stupid. They think they are maximizing their revenue by providing multiple versions. As somebody above said, they need to realize that THEY have the leverage. If they only provide a proper OAR version of their movies then that is what people will buy and they will save money in production costs in the long run. By all means provide a cheaper "bare-bones" version and a loaded SE version as choices, but stick with OAR no matter what.

The general public will get used to OAR if that becomes the norm, but not if the studios cave in and continue to confuse the marketplace by issuing this garbage.

I used to think that having separate versions wasn't so bad as long as an OAR version was available. But for the many reasons articulated in this thread I now feel it is a bad thing. It creates confusion in the market, it does nothing to educate the public on what is right, it is bad for the rental market since Blockbuster and others may only stock P&S. And it's one step closer to the day when they decide that maybe certain titles only really appeal to the masses and so only P&S will be made available.

Fox, this is a black eye. You should be ashamed.

 

[Eric Huffstutler]

...the true collectors are the ones who are interested in the extra material, while the pan and scan versions will mainly be purchased by casual viewers...and more often than not, the disc will simply be rented.

This comment rings of Circuit City's DIVX.
I live in Richmond VA where their corporate offices are located so maybe I can put a bug in someone's ear that J6P and DIVX is a perfect opportunity to bring the format back! The two goes hand-in-hand

 

[Gordon Wakim]

Jim_K,

You are assuming that the Joe Six Packs want to be educated, and they don’t. They want the screen filled up and they don't care if some of the picture is lost. This problem will only disappear when Sony, RCA, and all the other manufacture start pushing more 16:9 TV’s into the market place. Sony keeps introducing 4:3 models one after another. Go to any mainstream appliance store and you will see 90 percent 4:3 televisions. Wall Mart & Target only sell 4:3 televisions. The 16:9 televisions that are on the market are cost prohibitive to most people especially when you can get a 36" 4:3 TV for $500 to $1000 and a 34" Widescreen TV cost $2500 to $3400+ If you want to get rid of Pan & Scan you must get rid of the need for it. You will never be able to educate people that do not want to learn. This country needs to move faster and just change the standard, more TV stations need to broadcast in 16:9 Not to be rude, but you are asking people that can not even convert over to the Metric System (the rest of the world has) to learn the differences between widescreen & Pan & Scan and accept black bars on their TV’s. You have to change the TV and that is not happening fast enough. This is not Peter Stadons or Fox's fault. They, as in any other business, are in business to make money, and they can't ignore the masses just to cater to the people who want OAR. It would be bad business.

 

[Daniel L]

David Lambert (About you response to Crawdaddy)

Y'know, if Fox decided not to sell their product at Wal-Mart, though...it would be Wal-Mart coming to Fox to beg to buy stuff. After all, Wal-Mart doesn't want to miss out on the sweet sweet profit of Star Wars movies, blockbusters like ID4 and yes even Moulin Rouge, and TV shows like X-Files, Simpsons, M*A*S*H, etc. It's called LEVERAGE. Fox should use it. All the big studios should, but Fox has more than anyone else except perhaps WB and Paramount, with MGM coming into the ballpark of that list.

Simple facts, Hick*Mart sells at least 25% of the home videos in the industry. Fox could take a stand and refuse to sell to them; but as Universal found out last year, when they tried to sqare off against Blockwhore about VOD, they can't stand up to their most powerful customers.

Jack Hastra is dead on, you can't fight economics. Sure Fox could protest Hick*Mart and not sell to them, thus elimiating a stream of revenue. Would Hick*Mart care? Hell no, they'd just go stock up on more product from another studio. Hick*Mart also has tons of other sources of revenue to fall back on, Fox does not.

Daniel L

 

[Brett Cameron]

Studios should do what Dreamworks did with Shrek and Universal did with their Ultimate Edition line. If the movie requires dual layer and has a ton of extras put the widescreen version of the movie on the first disc with the commentary and DTS audio and the subtitles. The second disc can contain the full frame version with no DTS or commentary(if they want to watch the movie butchered then why would they want to hear the artists thoughts) and put the dubbed language tracks there also. Then split the extras between the two discs. Easy solution. Another way to do it would be the DVD 14 format that MGM has been using with the two versions on a dual layer side, and the extras on a single layer side. Fox should dig up those old "why widescreen is better" demos from their tapes and put them at the beginning of the dvds instead of those annoying "Are you ready for Fox dvd?" ads.

 

[Tom De Rosa]

I don't understand all this disappointment.
FOX is a FOR PROFIT company. They are not replacing existing WS versions with P&S, just supplementing them.
As for educating the masses, lol. This will only come the hard way. When they play their P&S dvd on their shiny new digital WS HDTVs, they'll notice the whole screen is not filled. They'll be class action lawsuits, since FULL SCREEN, doesn't fill the screen.
Also, the Wal-Mart bashing is not helpful. I have 3 Wal-Mart's near me and they ALL carry WS versions. If your's doesn't A) Get them to change or B) Don't shop there.
Finally, my only question is this:
How was Star Wars Episode 1 hurt by being WS only???

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

On the plus side, the widescreen editions will remain awesome two disc special editions. The fullscreen versions will be movie only... like round flat VHS tapes. This is a good reason to switch to widescreen.
And it's not like they're commiting to P&S... they're just supplying on a demand for select blockbusters/action films. If they DO make a commitment, then we'll have a problem.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

P.S. Star Wars DVDs will most likely never go P&S. George Lucas is rabidly against it, and Lucasfilm has total control over the release.

 

[Eric Huffstutler]

How was Star Wars Episode 1 hurt by being WS only???

Tom,
I may be wrong but having read various threads abut P&S and the average Joe, your answer may lie in the fact that this is a "Family" movie. I have heard that children have a lower attention span if they have to concentrate looking at something (like the center of a screen when the picture is smaller).
Keep in mind that the masses have average 4:3 televisions, not big screen TV's and projection systems. So having a 6 year old watch a complex movie within a rough 20x10 inch area (27" TV) is not easy especially when the parents are telling the kids not to sit on top of the TV due to "ruining their eyes" or radiation.
I am NOT on the side of the P&S people but they too should have a choice and there must be an easier and cheaper solution that offering two seperately packaged versions. Even the Shrek idea is better than most.

 

[Jim_C]

I'm gonna be ROTFLMAO when 16:9 TV's become the norm and J6P's are furious about those black bars on the SIDES of everything they own.

 

[george kaplan]

I have heard that children have a lower attention span if they have to concentrate looking at something (like the center of a screen when the picture is smaller)

I don't buy that. My son is 18 months old and he sits still and watches all of the Phantom Menace in it's widescreen glory. Of course, he is a lot smarter than the average kid, so maybe he's a bad example to use after all.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

It should be interesting to see how well these sell. I think it's a very bad idea to put these out with JUST pan and scan; it would be better to put out a disc with BOTH formats and not include the extras.

One recent release I've heard no uproar about is Universal's "Josie and the Pussycats", which is not only pan and scan but also "EDITED FOR FAMILY VIEWING"! This isn't replacing the uncut widescreen version also available, but is still rather disturbing. When DVD came out they hyped being able to have several different versions of the movie on the SAME disc, so stuff like this is riduculous.

Fox's recent "Family" titles like Sandlot have the right idea- BOTH formats are on the SAME disc- those who want the movie shown correctly get it, those who want pan and scan also get that and have the widescreen version there for when they come around. Problem solved.

 

[Dharmesh C]

If FOX is reading this, charge a little more for the pan and scan versions.