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Formula 1 2004 (1 Viewer)

Seth Paxton

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Yee-Ming,

to continue the side discussion, I just got to visit New York for the first time, and while its huge its really a lot like Chicago, which means that its lots of cement skyscrapers but all of them are basically pillars with maybe a semi-fancy cone on top.

Don't get me wrong, the sheer size can be impressive, but you don't see a lot of what I would consider unusual technology, lots of open spaces between buildings (like La Defense in Paris) and so on.

The US is more like "tried and true", with some exceptions of course. To me John's gag is only slightly unlikely based on some of the stuff Asian architects typically go for. :)

Maybe its just the outsider in me saying "Wow, that's cool".



Back to F1, you have GOT to be kidding me. So let me get this straight, we move the USGP up several months and the season is STILL going to be over by the time the race gets here. Sheesh.

:)

Give Mike the trophy and get him out of the way so we can focus on some competition in F1.
And Mike has to drag an anchor, or those barrels in Jaws. :laugh:
 

CharlesD

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Its very interesting to see Button & BAR so suddenly catapulted to (almost) the front of the pack. Honda & BAR have spent so much money in past seasons with little to show for it (except for having the loudest engine in F1), but along comes Dave Richards & then the departure of "Cheques" Villenuve & suddenly they are the "best of the rest"!

Still no one can beat Ferrari/Schumacher no matter how much money they spend (Toyota) Having a dominant team/driver is nothing new in F1, but seeing one team dominate for this long is unusual. Personally I love it (and not just because I'm a long time Ferrari fan) I'd rather see this sort of thing than the fake lottery of NASCAR or IRL where "anyone" can win (as randomly chosen from one of the teams with most horsepower) :rolleyes
 

Yee-Ming

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Personally I think the proposed new changes are nonsense, except maybe bar the one on reducing engine capacity. F1 has always been about cutting edge technology and how that later trickles down into consumer cars. Banning ALL the gadgets kinda takes away the raison d'etre of F1, doesn't it? Might as well tell Ferrari, BMW, Merc et all to race their Modenas v. Z8s v. SLRs.

(I wasn't watching the F1 too closely, was more interested in what was going on in the football :D )
 

Keith Mickunas

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Anybody else annoyed by JPM's whining about his incident with Shumacher? He's comparing it to a run-in he had with Rubens last year at Indy. Didn't he force Rubens into a spin? Seems like that is a different thing altogether.
 

Paul McElligott

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The world has enough spec racing series. F1 is the antidote to all that. Keep it the way it is...
 

Yee-Ming

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Considering his temperament, it's not surprising JPM is shooting off his mouth about Schumi, especially considering the "perceived" kid-glove treatment that Schumi appears to receive for his transgressions.

Call it jealousy, I guess. JPM badly wants to be champion, but deep down knows that he can't as long as Schumi drives at Ferrari. Which begs the question: why sign with McLaren? He should've bided his time, waited for Schumi to retire at which time Todt would've snapped him up.
 

JeremySt

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from planet-f1.com

Mosley gets the go-ahead from the teams
04/05/04
Max Mosley has announced that there has been a 'wide measure of agreement' to his revolutionary F1 plans.




The FIA President met with the team bosses in Monaco on Tuesday to discuss the FIA President's plan. Although it was thought that some of the teams would be sceptical about his ideas, Mosley has announced that they agreed to his "revolutionary proposals".

According to Mosley the bosses said 'yes' to having only one tyre manufacturer supply the entire grid, a ban on electronic driver aids and smaller engines. These three ideas will be implemented in 2006.

"It was a very good meeting. Where I had expected very significant dispute and debate there really was none and it was very constructive," Mosley told AFP.

"We went through all of the proposals and discussed them with the teams in some detail and as far as doing things sooner than 2008 there was a wide measure of agreement that we need changes much sooner."

"It will make Formula One more interesting, there will be closer racing and more overtaking. The basic idea is to make the racing closer and more interesting for the fans because that is what they want to see."

The teams also decided that the double single-lap qualifying format should be changed some time this year, while F1's engine manufacturers have been given four weeks to decide if they want to switch to 2.4-litre V8 engines.

Mosley added: "I think we are going to see a new engine formula in 2006 and the engine manufacturers are going to make proposals in addition to those that we have made to reduce the engine cost by 50 percent."

Mosley also confirmed Ecclestone's plans to increase revenue payments to teams in line with the previous agreement with the GPWC group of carmakers. The FIA President believes the increased revenue, together with other points in the proposal, have finally taken away the GPWC's reasons to leave F1 in 2008.

"Everything the GPWC set out to get, they have got," he said. "Their raison d'etre has disappeared."

Team boss Eddie Jordan expressed his happiness with the outcome of the meeting. "I was enormously pleased," he told the BBC.

The conclusions from the meeting, though, still have to be presented for approval to the FIA's World Motorsport Council. This will take place at a meeting on June 30.
 

Seth Paxton

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Yep, clearly there was a strong united supporting of these changes. Maybe they won't be good, maybe they will, but the teams actually competiting pretty much all agree that things need to be done.

I hadn't followed the possiblity of changing the new qualifying method, but I'm glad to hear it. I prefered the old single qualifying session/12 laps total method.
 

Yee-Ming

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In some ways I'm surprised that there is so much support for these changes, especially regarding driver aids. Smaller engines is fair enough, but a single tyre supplier? Why not go further, one engine supplier? Or go all the way, one car supplier? :frowning:
 

JeremySt

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Williams and McLaren are still in favor of long lasting V-10's, as opposed to this new V-8 format. We'll see what transpires.

On another note, I am a huge Williams fan. I have been a fan of JPM ever since he joined the team, especially because of his "I dont care who you are, Michael" attitude. I have huge respect for MS, but its been great to watche the two duke it out. The recent coming together they had at Imola was another great clash, but JPMs attitude aftwards, asking for the FIA to look into it, was just pathetic. His whiny attitude, both last year and last, has caused me to loose some respect for him. I think he'll continue to be a formidable opponent on the track, but I'll be glad to see him go at the end of this year. Williams didnt put up much of a fight to keep him, wich is fine with me. I hope they can get Webber, Villenueve, or Fisichella to replace him.
 

Keith Mickunas

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I have a big problem with his attitude. He complained that when he knocked Rubens out of a race he was given a penalty, and he thinks Schumi deserves the same for a slight bump that forced him on the grass. Then when he got back on the track, with hardly any time lost, he forced Ralf off but thinks that was just normal racing. :confused:

It's funny, he accuses the FIA of favoring Michael, but he shows that he expects even better treatment than that.

One thing that impresses me about Michael is his attitude. He is always so happy about winning. And he is obviously happy to see people like Button do well. He's a great competitor and good for the sport, regardless of some of his actions earlier in his career. On the other hand Kimi and JPM both have a bad attitude IMHO, and I don't want to see either of them winning championships anytime soon. McLaren should be an interesting place next year.
 

Daryl Furkalo

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Mosley knows that something has to be done to get interest back in the sport with the current Michael domination. By 06, MS could possibly have retired though.
 

Yee-Ming

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Exactly. Sport is often cyclical, and it happens to be Ferrari/Schumacher's time. No one complained when McLaren was winning, and Ferrari and MS were still struggling to get the car right. Now that they have, they want to artificially cut them down?

I suppose the difference is that in American pro sports, with the draft, the price of success is crap new players (ironic), so there is an in-built mechanism to help the weak teams, which doesn't happen in European pro sports. Even then, just look at English football, Liverpool were totally dominant in the mid 70s to the end of the 80s but are now going nowhere, then Manchester United dominated the 90s, but appear to be slipping.

The trouble is that they always look relatively short-term, ie maybe 2-3 years only. One would imagine that Schumi will have retired 5 years from now, at which time some other driver and/or team might dominate.
 

Keith Mickunas

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Even with the draft, cycles exist in American sports. Some years there will be a wild swing, but some strong teams remain constant for several years.

F1 has just reached an interesting point. Ferrari is doing everything right, and Michael is perhaps the best driver of all times, or at least has found the perfect match. I wasn't a huge Shumacher fan until last year. When F1 changed all the rules to try and hurt him it ticked me off, so I started rooting for him. And even with the early problems and tire problems all year he still managed to pull it off. That impressed me.
 

Jeff R.

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Ironic, since McLaren can barely make their current engines last through a single weekend.


For me, F1 is just as much about the technical achievments of the teams as much as the driver competition. Limiting the teams ability to develop unique cars is a huge turnoff. I'll give it a chance though.

I think the reason for the overwhelming support was the $$$ factor. Agreeing to these new rules means the teams get more money and spend less in development.
 

Seth Paxton

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I think the problem is that Ferrari already appeared to peak out in domination a few years ago, and last year sort of gave people hope of things evening out. But the way this year has gone, it's now worse than ever.

So that sort of makes people feel that "this is hopeless" thing with regards to competition in F1. Even in American sport dynasties you often get competition to the champs that keeps it interesting.

Michael winning by 7 points in the last race or two is one thing, Michael wrapping damn near every year up months before the end of the season is another. I agree that there could be something to that.
 

Keith Mickunas

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Well Schumi did it again. Amazing. Boring race, but still, this is history in the making. If he wins in Monaco he'll set a new record for sweeping the first six races. He's tied with Mansell for winning the first five, and if I remember correctly he's the only person to win the first four twice in his career.

To bad BAR didn't have a better showing. Still pretty good though, Button has points in every race, McLaren can't say the same. JPM got what he deserved IMHO after his whining after the last race.

Well we pretty much know one thing about Monaco, if Michael leads into the first corner he wins, or if he can pull out the lead after the first pit stop he'll win. One or the other. I'm betting the Ferrari's will dominate there again. Monaco is an interesting race, the track sucks because there's so little opportunity for passing, and the pits are horrible, but the history is there plus it's cool to see them race through the streets and along the seafront like that.
 

Rob Willey

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I'm not so sure. Qualifying and the start are everything at Monaco since there is virtually no passing. I think the Monaco circuit brings Ferrari back to the pack like no other, and I don't recall a lot of success for Ferrari in the principality.

Rob
 

Keith Mickunas

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1999 was a 1-2 finish for Michael and Eddie Irvine. 2000 Michael retired with a suspension failure. 2001 was a 1-2 finish for Schumi and Ruebens. 2002 Michael finished one second behind Coulthard, who's definitely not a threat this year. Last year was JPM, Kimi, then Michael, with a spread of 1.7 seconds. I'd say Michael doesn't have trouble at this track.

Renault could upset Ferrari as their cars are really coming together. I wouldn't count on BAR at Monaco, they're just not quite there yet. McLaren needs to do a lot in two weeks to compete, I don't see that happening. Williams really hasn't put together a consistent effort yet either. But really, the way the Ferrari has performed this year, Michael really has a shot at it. At some point the streak has got to end, but I wouldn't bet against him in any race at this point.
 

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