Forcing DVDs to skip the garbage... (1 Viewer)

[David Prior]

For me it has to do with the unwritten contract that says we agree to sit through advertising in order to get something for free. It's pretty funny when you remember that the earliest developers of television assumed customers would pay for TV because they thought the public would never sit still for the outrage of commercials. Now the marketeers have managed to so blur the line between advertising and entertainment that we actually pay to be advertised to -- I'll happily sit through a Toyota commercial in a movie theater if Toyota buys my ticket, but alas neither Toyota nor theater owners see it that way.

For no logical reason I exclude movie trailers from this. It's always been part of the experience of going to the movies and I look forward to trailers. But that doesn't include a damned Slice ad.

The problem with trailers on DVD is not that they're there, but the aggressive placement of them. Unfortunately you probably couldn't legally restrict a studio from disabling certain keys, at least not without changing the spec itself, since some prohibitions are for the users benefit (ie: disabling audio surfing when there's a DTS track that could hurt your equipment if you aren't set up correctly; and some supplements wouldn't work correctly without selectively disabling some functions). So it really comes down to consumers making their wishes known. If there are enough complaints, there will be change, if only temporarily.

 

[MarkHastings]

That's the thing. There should be some restrictions on the disabling of buttons. Even if it were something small like:

-The stop button can not be disabled for more than 30 seconds per DVD
-The audio button can only be disabled when a potentially damaging DTS track is available
-The skip and menu buttons can only be disabled during FBI warnings and not during video sequences.

etc.

RANT ON:
I mean, I understand why they won't allow the switching of audio tracks (i.e. the DTS potential of damage), but that's the fault of the DVD remote control manufacturers. Why would they allow a DVD to be produced that can damage a system just by the touch of a button?

They should have made it like the service menu on TV's. Make the audio buttons (on the remote control) inactive until you accept an agreement that says you understand the potential of damage if you do not have a DTS decoder. This way, those who know what they're doing, can enjoy the audio switching on the fly without being stifled due to the worry of people out there who don't know what they're doing.

 

[PaulP]

Actually I don't see why switching to DTS on the fly would be damaging to someone without DTS decoding capabilities. I've often switched my Criterion DVDs with DTS (which allow audio switching) past the DTS track on my non-DTS TV and all I got was silence.

 

[Thomas Newton]

I don't know whether you could regulate the problem out of existence. But it's easy to see why it is unjust.

1. It's YOUR player, not theirs.

2. It's time sliced out of YOUR finite lifespan without YOUR consent, not time sliced out of theirs.

3. They've been paid in full for the disc (either by you, or by the video store).

 

[Michael Reuben]

For those who might not be aware: David Prior is one of the top DVD producers in the field. He's responsible for such notable special edition packages as Fight Club and Pearl Harbor (to name just a few). Whatever David has to say about the state of DVD is well worth noting.

David, I'm pretty much with you on the distinction between trailers and ads. If the issue were forced ads on DVD, I'd be singing a different tune (and buying fewer discs). As you've said, the real issue here is the larger one of ad proliferation. I knew we'd turned a major corner when I started seeing DVD ads in movie theaters.

M.

 

[dpippel]

Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more David. I've got no problem at all with trailers being on the disc. In fact I *like* to have them there, but only if I get to choose when I view them. Right now Universal seems to be the only major studio with a forced trailer problem. I'd love it if they'd change their tune.

GREAT job on the Fight Club disc by the way.

 

[MarkHastings]

I'm with Doug too. I have no quams about them being on the disc, just allow me to bypass them a little bit easier than having to scan (i.e FFWD) through them.

Again, it's not so bad having to watch them the first time, but after you've seen the movie, there's no need to see them every time you pop in the disc.

 

[David Prior]

It probably doesn't happen often, but I've been told it can happen, so the studio perspective seems to be, understandably, better safe than sorry.

 

[Mark Goodman]

I used to enjoy watching the trailers in the theater. Now you sit through a half hour of trailers and commercials. It's one of the things that have hurt the theater experience for me and I hope the trend doesn't become any more prevalent on DVD.

 

[Doug Otte]

I'm certainly not defending it.

Cheers,
Doug O.

 

[MarkHastings]

Yeah, it's the reason why they have the warning when you select a DTS track (through the menus). If you were allowed to switch audio on the fly, some people may never see that warning (if they didn't choose DTS from the menus), so the studios aren't covered if a law suit was filed.

It sucks that this is how things have to be, but I wonder if the alternative would be better?

Poll:
1.) How many would be willing to add on a forced DTS warning at the beginning of every DTS movie that states "Manually switching audio tracks may result in damage to a non-DTS reciever" (or something like that) if it meant you had the freedom to switch audio tracks on the fly?

and

2.) How many would rather have the audio button disabled in order to get rid of yet another forced warning?

It's a tough choice...although I think I'd rather see the forced DTS warning considering I still have to see the damn warning everytime I choose that option in the menu.

 

[PaulP]

I would definitely like studios (instead of having a warning come up when you select DTS from the menu or disable on-the-fly audio switching) place a forced but skippable pre-menu warning similar to Fox's "the views expressed on the commentary and interviews are those of individuals providing them" that would say roughly "This film is presented with an optional DTS audio track. If you are not equiped with a DTS decoder, please be aware that there is a possibility of damage to your hardware should you switch to the DTS track while the film is playing." More or less.

 

[Chet_F]

"Studios are businesses and as businesses they are continually looking at their sales and what motivates buyers. If they perceive that forced trailers are causing a drop in sales then you can expect a change."

And that is ONLY if they perceive loss of sales as a DIRECT result of forced trailers and ONLY if that loss in sales is OVER the increase in revenue from the forced trailers. Venting does provide for studios to see what people do and do nto like. The studios fequent these boards and visit these very threads. Too assume that posting your displeasure of this practice will accomplish nothing is presumption on your part.

"But there is no forced trailer warning on the package. You can't tell there are any forced trailers until you start playing the disc."

EXACTLY!!!!!!!! You have NO idea until you see the flippin thing force it's way on your TV. Putting that aside the whole "Don't buy it if you don't like it" is an extremely easy cop out of an answer. The studios don't care if X% won't buy it due to a forced trailer, they just see it as an easy trade offf for the increased sales due to the ads. Putting that aside I don't think that more than .001% of people would even have that mentality even IF they could discern whether DVD A has a forced trailer over DVD B, i.e. J6P says "Oh there's a forced trailer...I'm not going to buy it."

CF

 

[Ted Todorov]

On top of everything else, they usually put non-anamorphic trailers in front of an anamorphic feature. Do they expect me to change my TV settings just for the pleasure of watching their trailers? I don't think so.

As David points out trailers have always been part of the movie-going experience, but lately trailers have gotten worse and worse. They are utterly unoriginal, reveal too much of the plot of the film in question, use the same pompous narrator to plug every "art" film, pretend that foreign language films are entirely without dialog even if in reality they are wall to wall talk -- I could go on for ever. If they bothered making decent trailers, we might not be having this discussion.

Ted

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Chet, you don't work for the post office do you?

If only we could develop a way to harness all the steam coming from Chet's ears every time those evil studios mess with his 'right' to play DVDs in his own way, maybe we could solve the world's energy problems. (just messing with you CF, you are not alone in feeling frustrated)

Unfortunately, so far your comments are only giving support to why studios continue to use forced trailers and will soon be force feeding you commercials. If sales are not impacted, then even if we all scream'n'holler nothing is going to change. Just think about it. If what you say is true and 99.999% of their market wont stop buying DVDs with forced trailers, then why in the world should they cater to the needs of .001% especially when it will cost them lost revenue. So far you are making an excellent argument for using forced trailers.

BTW: If you seriously "have NO idea" if a DVD has forced trailers than you haven't bothered to read many of the reviews of DVDs on this and other sites. Not only that, but for reviewers that overlook FTs, maybe you should consider contacting them and requesting that in the future they include that information in their reviews.

(considering many reviewers overlook FTs in their reviews, this is yet another signal to studios that FTs are not as bothersome to people as one might hope)

I simply can't stress this enough, if you are truly as upset as you appear to be from your posts, there are sensible steps you can make to try and change it. Venting here may make you feel better, but as long as YOU keep buying these DVDs then you are sending a VERY clear message to the studios that as much as you hate these forced trailers, it isn't stopping you from buying them.

Until you and those who share your passionate dislike of FTs can convince the studios that you will not tolerate forced trailers and/or ads on DVDs, you can expect nothing will change. In fact you can probably expect more of it - as trailers have been shown to increase sales of those films, and advertisers are foaming at the mouth to get a chance to have their ads shown on DVD releases.

:star: This thread reminds me of an amusing treatment some psychiatrists were using with their patients back in the late 60's-70's called 'Primal Scream Therapy'.

 

[MarkHastings]

This is true, I for one will not stop buying them even if they do things I don't like, but I still like to let them know I don't like them even if I pay for their product.

I know if I were to have a product on the market, I'd be more respectful of the guy who buys it and complains about it than the guy who refuses to buy it because of a complaint. The ones who spend the money are the ones who have the right to complain.

Kind of like my phone company, they pissed me off, but I coudln't live without a land phone line, so I started writing my checks out and putting little love notes in the comments section of the check (i.e. "You Guys SUCK!)

Sure it probably didn't do anything and I know I could have done more productive things with my anger, but it was fun, and hopefully someone caught my note.

So to studios who use forced trailers: You can have my money - but you still suck!

If that's all they want is my money, then so be it, they can have it, but they won't be getting my respect.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

Forced trailers won't stop me from buying a title I want, but they WILL stop me from buying something I might not be sure about. I certainly won't pick up any recent Universal titles sight-unseen because I might not only end up with a crappy movie, but it'll also be a pain getting it to play!
If I do buy a disc with forced trailers, I will NEVER buy any title that's advertised. For example, I was going to get the special edition of "Meaning of Life", but first I bought the High School Reunion Collection and since the SAME ad for it is on ALL 3 of those discs, I now won't be getting "Meaning Of Life".
I have no tolerance for things shoved in my face, or for paid advertising where there shouldn't be any. 15 years ago I boycotted both Coke and Pepsi for a year because they both put commercials on the beginning of VHS movies that were rental-priced ($89.99)!! This meant I couldn't buy those tapes because of the price, and to rent them I had to pay the "New Release" prices, which meant the video labels got paid for putting the commercials on there but weren't passing any of it on to their customers. I'll do it again if they put ads on a DVD I pay any amount over $5 for. Actually make that $3- that's about what I pay for blank discs.

 

[Chris Farmer]

Just a question on the dts thing, would it be possible to enable the audio on the fly, but DISABLE the dts track except from the menu? IE, pushing the audio button enables you to only go to DD, Commentary, FX Track, Music, etc., but if you want dts the only way to engage that track is via the menu?

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Interesting discussion taking place here, I really hate when the audio button is disabled.

I've got to rant again on my WWE DVDs, yesterday I was watching that damned PSA again and the thought occured to me to see what happened when I hit stop. Well, the thing stopped playing but the only thing I could do after that is hit the play button, and when I did that it made me go back to the beginning of the damn PSA. Thing is, this is really a more recent deal for them to because they didn't used to include this thing on every disc.

I don't have a problem with trailors on a DVD, just so long as I have the option of whether or not to watch them, and pretty much I watch them once anyway, but not more than that. If I had to guess though and this is just my hunch I think this will start to be more common. Just a theory I have though.

 

[CraigF]

The reason I buy a DVD is so I can watch it how I want. Forced trailers and other studio promos prevent that. However...so far it hasn't annoyed me to FF or whatever past them. But the precedent this may set is for not-movie-related advertising, which I will really have to think about if/when it happens.

What does annoy me is when studios are really stupid about their forced trailers, mixing anamorphic and non-anamorphic ones together..obviously something is going to look bad, and I'm sure not going out of my way to fix it every few seconds...waste of advertising, your ad looks bad so your product looks bad...if you're going to ram crap down our throats at least do the crap properly.