Fooling yourself about 5.1 soundtracks...

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Mitch Stevens, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've been reading a few posts here at the HTF where people are claiming that a certain DVD does not contain amazing sound quality just because it does not have a DTS track. I seriously think that these people are fooling themselves into believing that a DTS track will sound a million times better than the ALREADY amazing REFERENCE quality sound that the Dolby Digital 5.1 track provides.

    The two titles, which are most talked about, (at least for now) are Matrix Reloaded, and T3. Both have only Dolby Digital, and both have absolutely MIND-BLOWING, CRYSTAL CLEAR, REFERENCE sound! Yet, many people are saying "well it sounded "just" ok, but it would have sounded a lot better in DTS."

    I really hope this doesn't turn into a DD vs. DTS debate, but how can one be sure that DTS would benefit or sound infinitely better than the asbsolutely amazing tracks already on these reference sounding DVDs? I seriously think that people are purposely making themselves BELIEVE that the DD track sounds awful, even though it doesn't! It seems as if people WANT to force themselves into thinking that they are hearing a less than perfect soundmix, just so that they could pretend that a DTS track would sound better.
     
  2. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    7,566
    Likes Received:
    195
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Georgia (the state)
    Real Name:
    Patrick McCart
    DTS does indeed sound great, but a lot of it has to do with the mix.

    I found the DD 5.1 tracks for The Blues Brothers and the Indiana Jones films to be incredibly well mixed.

    Plenty of mono and 2.0 surround tracks are wonderful, too. The 1.0 track on The Adventures of Robin Hood is beautiful.
     
  3. Clay-F

    Clay-F Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2003
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think its because not having both leaves you wondering what the other could have sounded like....
     
  4. Devin U

    Devin U Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2002
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Great, this can of worms for what, the 1,000,000 time here?

     
  5. david*mt

    david*mt Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Many dvds with only DD do in fact sound fantasic. The Lion King, SW Episode I and II, Martix Reloaded, as examples. However, on dvds that have dual DD and DTS tracks, I almost always find the DTS to be superior.
     
  6. Bill Griffith

    Bill Griffith Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2002
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    why,

    I'm just curiose, why does the DTS sound superior. Is it purely a personal preference or is there some sort of physical evidence that shows that DTS has something that DD doesn't.

    I've watched a movie in both DTS and DD, same movie, the only thing I noticed was that the low freq sounds seem to be lower or louder, I really can't tell which but there does seem to be a difference sometimes. Other times I can't tell squat between the two of them.

    so I'm just curiose that if you find DTS better, where you can compare a DTS to DD, why?
     
  7. alan halvorson

    alan halvorson Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 1998
    Messages:
    2,009
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Someday, I'd like someone (I don't know who - I can't) do a fair comparison between the two formats. By fair I mean, the same soundtrack encoded in both formats at the same bit rate by the same people, who have the goal of producing as accurate encoding as possible, with neither enhanced. I very much doubt that DTS would win in this scenerio, or that anyone could reliably tell them apart.

    In my view, DD is to be much more admired than DTS. While DTS uses a much higher bit rate than DD, DTS is not always superior or, when it is, it is rarely overwhelmingly so.
     
  8. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hi everybody. Bye everybody. [​IMG]
     
  9. Chuck L

    Chuck L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Though this is somehwhat off topic...

    I think one thing that has cheapened the DTS 'label' is that it now can be easily found on cheap ass $4.99 titles at K-Mart from a label that you have never heard of in your life.

    It will be something like a public doman Popeye title with a great big huge DTS banner running the top of the disc. I mean come on people...are there really folks that fall for that?
     
  10. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey Chuck...if you're on line send me an email... (and check the forum for the Lilo review).

    Ok...sorry to get off topic folks!

    dave [​IMG]
     
  11. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 1998
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  12. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    4,300
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What irritates me is that the cries for including DTS at all costs mean that other, different things get crowded off the discs; for instance, FOTR was supposed to have a music only track so we could finally hear all of Howard Shore's magnificant score. But DTS had to be included, so there wasn't enough room for it. I may never forgive the DTS advocates for that one. [​IMG]
     
  13. Nick Graham

    Nick Graham Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2001
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why couldn't they have included the score on the original, theatrical release? Is there no CD of the score (granted, chopped up on a CD is a different experience)?

    I would say that while the DTS lovers of the world is probably a small market, they probably outnumber the isolated score lovers, so in terms of dollas and cents......
     
  14. Michael St. Clair

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    6,001
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In addition to Roogs, it has been done by Warner; they worked carefully to make sure the reissues of the 'Lethal Weapon' Films, 'Twister', and 'Interview With the Vampire' were perfectly level matched, balanced, and authored from the same source.

    The result was the same as Roogs'...the discs sound too much the same to make a meaningful distinction.

    It is time to stop putting redundant 5.1 tracks on DVDs, and use the bits saved to increase picture quality. Simply master and author the single OSL 5.1 track carefully.

    I am not anti-DTS, but I am the waste and the compromises in picture quality (and sometimes supplements) that this redundancy causes.
     
  15. Craig Thomas

    Craig Thomas Auditioning

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There have been several "updated" DVD's such as X-Men 1.5 and LOTR that have DTS. The first released DVD's were in DD. Are the movies DTS because they have just the movie on one disc, and all the extras on seperate discs?

    If that's the case, then the recording studio must think DTS sounds better. ???

    Personal preference: I've never bought a DVD because of the extras...and rarely do I watch them after the movie. Give me the movie with DTS, and thats it. [​IMG]
     
  16. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    8,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  17. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ted,

    "Better" does have an objective angle but only in a blind A/B/C scenario when one can compare to the original uncompressed master (as performed by ROOGS). In his case, DD and DTS both sounded "different" than the original but in different ways. I guess in that case "better" *is* subjective since both codecs introduce their own colorations...and folks may respond differently to both of them.

    Ok...so "Better" is still subjective after all... [​IMG]
     
  18. Michael St. Clair

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    6,001
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  19. STLMIKE

    STLMIKE Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 1998
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    IMHO, Matrix Reloaded's soundtrack sucks...
     
  20. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've spoken with a number of in-the-know industry folks. Seems that the same debates are just as alive there...one recording/mastering engineer who's well respected with years of experience thinks it sounds no better, another similarly credentialed fellow says just the opposite and thinks DTS is the best way to go...yet another takes a "it's subjective" point of view.

    I guess we hear what we hear (or don't hear) no matter who we are!

    dave [​IMG]
     

Share This Page