Floyd Landis

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Chu Gai, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    OK, they've found elevated levels of testosterone and further examination indicates that some of the testosterone is synthetic. I don't know much about this but whether he intentionally or unintentionally took the stuff, would the synthetic material still be in his system afterwards? Are there any plans to examine his blood samples over a period of time to further characterize this? Also, is testosterone, at the levels they found, a substance that would lead to enhanced athletic performance?
     
  2. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    As much as it pains me to write this, I don’t believe that professional athletes unknowingly put substances that they know nothing about in their bodies—most especially in the middle of a major competition.

    Since I did not believe those kinds of protestations from Barry Bonds, I also don’t find Landis’ claims to be believable.
     
  3. John Alvarez

    John Alvarez Screenwriter

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    I agree. Elite athletes are in touch with EVERYTHING that happens to their bodies.
     
  4. Steve Berger

    Steve Berger Supporting Actor

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    If his comments on Leno are to be believed (and they should be verifiable) then five tests before and two tests after, came back normal: and it was the same lab that did the controversial Armstrong tests.

    There were also some serious procedural errors http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10679.0.html While these might not have any bearing on the actual results, they do point up some problems with the people involved in the testing process.

    Never been in a bike race, have you Lew or John? After days of riding and lots of miles in 95 degrees temperatures, you'll do some strange things near the end of a day's race.

    Nothing I've said should be construed to condone cheating and no one has all the facts yet but the levels found (five times and eleven times normal) seem almost physically impossible. We are left with two extreme possibilities. He was dosed with an extremely high level of drugs or the test was compromised.
     
  5. MarkMel

    MarkMel Screenwriter

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    I am a USCF racer and I think they're all doing something.

    However,

    Most say testosterone is not a one day drug, it doesn't have an instantaneous effect. Also it builds mass and cyclists do not want that.

    The winner of any stage gets tested immediately, they all know this why would he destroy the field doped knowing he would be tested?

    What are the results of the stage 16 and 18 samples? You would think one of those would show something. Or nothing, which is even more curious.

    You would think that the samples should be split and sent to two independent labs, not a lab endorsed by the tour.

    All of the samples go to the lab with a coded number, that doesn't know who the samples belong to. They would have to know who belongs to which number if they planned on tampering with the sample. If they did this, the entire sample would be tainted.

    Hindsight is 20-20 but if I were these guys and racing clean, I'd have two samples taken, one given to the officials and one taken by another lab and stored. Jeanie Longo had samples taken and stored, this way if they came out with a new test in the future, they could go back and test her samples. She didn't want anyone calling her palmeres into question, then or in the future.

    If Floyd didn't dope, there's no way he could prove it. If he did dope and his doctors sucked by not making sure he was in the green zone I wish he'd come out and say he did it like Miller did. This by the way is the method that I think these guys dope, the doctors dope them right up to the limit.

    This thing that really sucks is we will never know the truth. If he gets off, everyone will think he doped anyway, if he gets sanctioned he'll deny like Tyler did and never man up and tell the truth.

    Sucks to be Floyd.
     
  6. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

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    Cheating,maybe but with testosterone,thats odd. From what i've read you need a few weeks of it to see any results.
     
  7. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    My reason for the post was to ask the questions,
    1) Do further tests indicate that synthetic testosterone was in his blood both before and after the infamous test in question?

    If it was, then whether he knew or not (it's irrelevent to me), he was taking substances.

    If it wasn't, and if sythetic testosterone doesn't somehow metabolize to nothing in 24 hours, then it suggests that the fraud, deception, doctoring doesn't have to do with Floyd but with the facility or people that handled the samples. In the latter case, Floyd is innocent and should be given his due while the investigation on cheating should focus elsewhere. If not, then fuck Floyd.
     
  8. MarkMel

    MarkMel Screenwriter

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    Yes, but I guarantee that we will never know the truth.
     
  9. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

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    I think he said he's never tested positive for it before.
     
  10. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    That'd be a pity. If I were running a certified lab and my tests were called into question, I'd openly invite other labs to run the samples. I don't think you need a lot of sample to check out the testosterone. Transparency and all that.
     
  11. mattCR

    mattCR Executive Producer
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    I just don't understand what benefit taking this would have at this point. He had a LOW level of e-testosterone, which wasn't present in his urine sample from the day before, and it wasn't present in tests from the day after.

    So, he took an ineffectual ammount of a hormone that has almost no short term effects on the day after the race in which he made up time in the tour.

    He may be guilty, but I can't figure out what the heck he would have gained from this kind of plan?
     
  12. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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  13. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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    The fact that he tried to use the "I have naturally high levels of testosterone" excuse indicates his guilt to me. Because if it were true, he would have seen a positive test long before this point, or he would have had a doctor provide documentation in advance (if that's even allowable).

    For those who defend him with the argument that he would have to be an idiot to pull a stunt like that knowing he would be caught, think about his situation. He was in 18th place and nobody remembers someone who finishes in 18th place. Even had he known he would be caught, there is the chance he didn't care and figured the fame of a Tour de France win would always be remembered despite a possible/likely drug violation.
     
  14. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    No—I just used to ride quite a bit—including a few years of commuting to work and back.
     
  15. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Look, I happen to think that Landis' explanations, mannerisms, demeanor, and all that look damned suspicious. I'm just posing some questions and wondering if they've been examined. I'd just like to rule out a couple of things and if they're ruled out, then screw him.
     
  16. Sami Kallio

    Sami Kallio Screenwriter

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    No short term effect? I wouldn't be so sure about that. I would think if he took something like androgel he would have immediate boost of test in his blood and that would lead to fast recovery time and increased energy. Both very beneficial short term effects for someone on a bike race like TTF.
     
  17. Nathan_F

    Nathan_F Second Unit

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    I believe these are the facts that are known and pretty much undisputed.

    Floyd's A and B samples tested for an 11:1 testosterone to epitestosterone level.
    The "A" sample was further tested by carbon isotope method and found to contain synthetic testosterone.

    I think that's it, right?

    Now I've heard things like: his testosterone level in and of itself was actually normal and the epitestosterone level was just real low. Testosterone can be used for recovery and is not necessarily a mass-builder. Floyd has denied with many different claims (naturally high testosterone level or naturally high ratio level, drinking could have caused it, his thyroid meds, something else could have been tampered with, tained lab.) To me this indicates one of 2 things, guilty and is trying a shotgun approach to denial, or he's innocent and is throwing every possible explanation out there because he, well, just doesn't have one. I don't really know what to believe at this point.
     
  18. Sami Kallio

    Sami Kallio Screenwriter

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    One thing is certain; he had synthetic test in his blood. That by itself is a reason to disqualify him, whether he knowingly took it or not. If he didn't know about it, which is unlikely, then we can feel sorry for him but it doesn't change the fact that he took the victory while under synthetic performance boosters and thus doesn't deserve it.

    Then again, it's unlikely any of these riders are clean.
     
  19. John Alvarez

    John Alvarez Screenwriter

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    i wasn't saying he did or didn't cheat. I was only saying that as an elite athlete you can't use the B.S. excuse "someone put something in my drink" excuse. I hope they find that the lab was wrong but it's all a little fishy.

    By the way I used to race mountain bikes but never had to have testing done.
     

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