Floorstanding or Bookshef for 50% HT , 50% Music which is better?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Richard Gray, Jun 4, 2002.

  1. Richard Gray

    Richard Gray Stunt Coordinator

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    This is a general question, but one that concerns me. As we all seem to love great Home Theater as well as listening to at least 2 channel stereo. IMHO the upcoming SACD -vs.- DVD-A etc... fight has released a larger concern.
    How many speakers and of what type must I hunt down! I am armed with not nearly enough cash to purchase what I dream of. Consequently after listening to a very well rendered DVD-A my poor ears are left to nag me into submission. Then the situation I have been working on for over a year is suddenly drastically changed. I don't have the right set up...ack!!!!
    While SACD, DVD-A, and DPL and DTS all have enhanced my enjoyment they make me search for the next wonder solution. My current set up is now unacceptable. It belittles the joy of my search for that next plane of personal enjoyment. All of this muddles my darned upgrade path.
    The choices were once quite easy. Find a great center piece (any mid to high end Receiver) then find a couple of tower speakers such as Klipsch, Boston's, Acoustic Research, Infinity, Sonus Faber, Magneplanar...et all and we are set for excellent 2 channel music. But, now we have thrown the proverbial monkey wrench into the mix.
    Those Darned Engineers! [​IMG] It must be the ultimate love hate relationship.
    With my multi-channel DTS, DPL II, THX, Discreet, amp eating turbocharged monster receiver, Amp which has enough in's and out's to set a record for snake farming there is a sinister problem facing all of us. A challenge I will face with a grim smile.
    Which Speakers should I buy next! It matters not what is presently residing at home. They must be driven out!
    Whether tis' nobler in the heart to suffer the slings and arrows of...multi-channel music with perfectly (read mirror) matched ultra high quality speaker's dominating my listening environment. Or, to choose those cute, dare I say 'nearly invisible' home theater mini monitors that my significant other thinks easily fit into a modest (cough cough) decorator tasteful (what the heck is that anyway!/?) living environment.
    My bottom line to use a "business term" is this. When the feeling sizes me I wish to experience all that the director of a fine Spectacle (movie) can present on Saturday evening, or be swept away by great musical experience on a rainy Tuesday, then that is what I darn well want to do!
    Now, what are your feelings dear friends? I am leaning towards either JBL S-38's all around. Six of them. Or the Klipsch RF-3II's for fronts, RB-3's for surrounds and the RC Center. And no Sub for now.
    But, I just heard the Sonus Faber Concerto. I wonder if they take trade in's on Pick up trucks [​IMG] .
    Argh!!! there are so many choices and I'm not nearly confused enough yet! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    Richard,

    It is my personal opinion that you get more sound/$ when you buy bookshelf speakers. In your title you say that HT is of importance, so what I would do, is purchase high quality bookshelf speakers that are to your liking, and buy a really good subwoofer or two for the LFE portion of your home theatre experience.

    I believe that this would be a much better setup for HT, rather than buying tower speakers w/o a subwoofer. But, for 2 ch. stereo, many people prefer to use full range towers without their sub, but these are all the wonderful things that you must decide on your own by listening to many different setups.

    I personally own towers for fronts and bookshelves everywhere else, but if I would have known then, what I know now, I would definately have gone with high quality bookshelves all the way around, and put more money into a very good sub or two.

    My $0.02, hope this helped a bit. Good luck with your new setup,

    Nick
     
  3. Richard Gray

    Richard Gray Stunt Coordinator

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  4. Marcus Lewis

    Marcus Lewis Stunt Coordinator

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  5. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    Richard,

    Those all look like nice setups, although I really don't like Polk Audio subs. I had an 8" Polk that I was using, and it sucked. But then again it was a few years ago that I bought it, so they may have improved. Also, if you liked the sound of the Polks and the JBL's you might not like the sound of the Mission speakers. They are really laid back in the treble, which is quite different from the jbl's if I remember correctly from when I was auditioning.

    Some other considerations might be:

    -4 Paradigm Mini Monitors with CC-170 and a good sub

    -4 Diva 2.1's the Diva CC and a good sub

    -4 Axiom M3Ti's with VP-100 or 150 centre and a good sub or
    -2 Axiom M22Ti's and 2 M2Ti's with VP-100 or 150 and a good sub

    BTW, your sub doesn't have to be the same brand as the speakers. I would consider a HSU-VTF2 or SVS 25-31PCi if you could squeeze one of them into your budget
     
  6. Jason Wilcox

    Jason Wilcox Supporting Actor

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    I second the Mission setup, Boston setup, and Ascend setup.
     
  7. Richard Gray

    Richard Gray Stunt Coordinator

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    Nick,,

    I wasn't aware that the Mission M7x series was as laid back as that. It has been written up by several publications a being relatively flat across the spectrum which I guess can translate into laid back. But having a pretty good Receiver (Yamaha RXV1200) I can tweak to my hearts content.

    as for the other setup's I am trying to get a local custom installer to preview these for me.

    -4 Paradigm Mini Monitors with CC-170 and a good sub

    -4 Diva 2.1's the Diva CC and a good sub

    -4 Axiom M3Ti's with VP-100 or 150 center and a good sub or
    -2 Axiom M22Ti's and 2 M2Ti's with VP-100 or 150 and a good sub

    Being in Alabama it is a bit hard to track down Axiom or Paradigm.

    Marcus,

    I will try and get a listen from the Axiom line soon, as I will be traveling to Atlanta and they have nearly everything there.
     
  8. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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  9. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    Might also want to consider a Klipsch Ref 7 set-up if it's in the budget. Many guys on the Klipsch forum swear by them. Or go with the now discontinued Legends as I did. Nothing like 8 full size towers for that KILLER HT experience. Good luck choosing....Mike
     
  10. Richard Gray

    Richard Gray Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike,
    You must think I am a glutton for punishment. With 4 of those monster KLF's sitting next to my head there would be 2 bleeding ears! [​IMG] And at that point there wouldn't be enough room in my Listening Room for me [​IMG]
    Actually, I love Klipsch and would like to go with the Reference series tower RF3II's but with four of 'em going I would never go to work! Instead maybe the bookshelf series RB series.
     
  11. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Richard,
    I'm with Mike, Make the ears BLEED baby!!![​IMG]
    I like the Klipsch sound as less fatiguing. I have the Ledgends for mains, RC-7 for center, RC-3 for rear, and RF-3's for surround.
    I had the RF-3's originally until I purchased the KLF-20's at 50% due to discontinuing the series. The 20's way overpowered the RF-3 and I had to upgrade the center to the RC-7 to "keep up". Again I think the 3's are great.
    I personally am considering the RF-7's for mains and move the 20's to surround. However I love the 3-way ledgends and would love to get the KLF-30's for mains. A purchase over the net is not realistic as combined shipping would be about 220 lbs.
    Go for the 3's. A horn loaded speaker is great with HT.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. Richard Gray

    Richard Gray Stunt Coordinator

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    Phil,
    I don't want to turn this into a Klipsch love fest, but they do make excellent 'Horns'. The RF3II's are the only thing I would want at this time. IMHO they ROCK to use them for HT only seems overkill. Getting any large (50+ pounds) speaker from a good Internet site is almost as expensive as from a local bricks and mortar establishment. The shipping costs alone can make or brake a deal very quickly.
    What about using ubid????[​IMG] Are those bid prices real? It seems almost impossible. [​IMG]
    I have heard of several u-bid complaints lately, but there are always risks involved with getting a 'much better price.'
     
  13. Robert_Gaither

    Robert_Gaither Screenwriter

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    I hate to say this but unless your AVR, Pre-Amp, or DVD-A/SACD has active bass management (AVR/Pre-Amp for the 5.1+ inputs and the DVD-A/SACD in it's decoder setup all of which the older models don't) then you will have to maybe consider adding the additional cost of the Outlaw ICBM as well. Otherwise imho you will be forced to have full range speakers at all positions to really get the full playback performance potential of the respective source.

    I also noticed that you seem fixed on getting a matching brand sub for your gear which I disagree with, buy the best sub that you can budget (I would simply rule out the PB12 based on JBL's track record of building a dependable sub) even if brands don't match as a good sub will almost always blend and perform with any brand of speakers (best of the cheap ones to me is the entry level Adire Rava, HSU VTF-2, and SVS PC vs the brands you were mentioning).
     
  14. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    Richard,

    I have looked at ubid. I was going to bid on some KLF 30's until I realized that the price was for each speaker plus shipping.

    I think one can get good deals there and they seem to have good customer service when there is a problem. I also understand that it is best to buy just from ubid and not one of their approved venders, etc.

    I really do not know as I have never purchased off their site.

    Phil
     
  15. Richard Gray

    Richard Gray Stunt Coordinator

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    Robert G,
    I have been hearing about this Bass Management problem with the first series of SACD and DVD-A Players. I wonder if the next phase of players will be able to handle this? If not that Outlaw might find a place at my house. [​IMG]
    As for the lack of quality subs available this hasn't escaped my hearing. IMHO there are very few decent subs at the >$500 level. I did find a nice Klipsch model at Tweeter that was on sale for $599 (forgot the model number) but it was huge! [​IMG]
    That is why I keep thinking about using all towers with at least 8" passive subs and on up the line. What keeps me from that is that with that much bass going on from every direction I believe it will drown out everything else.
    Phil, Thanks for tat info. I have been restraining myself from making bids on that site for some time now. The prices are a bit deceptive, but there a many posts about the good overall purchasing environment there.
    Now to find a really good sub...hum
    Thanks again all.[​IMG]
     
  16. Gil D

    Gil D Supporting Actor

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    Watch out for ubid. They really hammer you on shipping for heavy items and they have some real shady sellers. There is still deals to be had there but it's a different environment now.

    Tweeter runs occasional customer appreciation and closeout sales where you can get a decent deal on the Klipsch.

    If you like the sound of the Sonus fabers and Viennas at Tweeter you really owe it to yourself to look into the Polk LSi. They are really superb for the price.

    Also, if your room is not to big you may want to try the HSu VTF-2 sub. There are plenty of good subs out there around $500 from Hsu, SVS, and Adire.

    Good luck,
    Gil
     
  17. Eric_M

    Eric_M Stunt Coordinator

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    The mini monitor setup would be nice. However you may want to consider a 370 as a center for that if you want the timbres to be matched. Better still would be minis all the way around, even one as a center. This was my original plan but then I went for the monitor 7's though sometimes I wonder if I should have saved my $ and stuck with the minis.

    In any case the V3s are out on the Paradigm monitor line and the price has gone up as well.
     
  18. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    Eric,
    Have you seen the new Monitor series speakers? I am very interested in them. The only model that my dealer had in last time I checked were the Monitor 9 v.3's and I was wondering if you have any info on the others. Do you know if they have upgraded EVERY speaker in the lineup?? I have Montior 11 v.2's currently and have been wondering about the v.3's.
    I e-mailed Paradigm tech support over a week ago, and still no reply.[​IMG]
    Any info would be greatly appreciated.
     
  19. Justin Doring

    Justin Doring Screenwriter

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    Personally, I would rather have two good sounding speakers than five mediocre ones, but that's just me.

    Towers and mini monitors both have their advantages and disadvantages. Mini monitors generally image better, and are far cheaper to make than towers. On the other hand, I've never heard a mini monitor (the $3500 Dynaudio Contour 1.3Mk.II SE included) that could convey the weight of live music like a tower can. For home theater, however, while towers still have the edge, five mini monitors and a sub crossed over at 80hz or lower can sound excellent for a fraction of the price.
     
  20. Eric_M

    Eric_M Stunt Coordinator

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    Yeah I had the monitor 7's lined up next to the minis and sometimes I could swear the minis did have better imaging. I ended up with the 7's in the end because not only did they sound a bit louder they filled up the room a little better, or so it seems. I also thought I would one day regret not getting the towers. Though now I wonder if I should have stuck to minis. That's me though, indecisive always.

    Anyway, yes Nick I do have the monitor 7's now and I love the way they sound. They are the v3.
     

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