Flash Gordon?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Matt Naglieri, Apr 6, 2003.

  1. Matt Naglieri

    Matt Naglieri Second Unit

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    Just wondering if anyone knows whether or not the new Flash Gordon disc from France has unremovable French subtitles?
     
  2. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

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    ...it does (note where it says: Sous-titres français imposés)... sorry...
    (but, when you think of it, why shouldn't it have?... after all, this is a French release destined for the French(-language) market, meaning France proper, its territories (e.g. Tahiti), Belgium, Switzerland, and the tiny Pricipality of Monaco as well - but NOT French-speaking Canada!)

    . . .
     
  3. James Reader

    James Reader Screenwriter

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    Well Hendrick, while I can appreciate that it's a French disc, lots of European French speakers also speak English as perhaps would prefer to view the film in English without the added distraction of subtitles. The question being asked was not unreasonable.

    I feel the imposed subtitles are a requirement of licencing issues.

    Matt, if you already have a disc with forced subtitles, see if this little workaround works - instead of playing the film from the menu, stop the disc and use your remote search and play a couple of seconds into title 1. This seems to work on some players.
     
  4. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

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    ...well James, let me put it this way: the vast - and I do mean vast - majority of French and French-language (i.e. Walloons from Belgium, Romands from Switzerland, etc.) viewers will be watching the French dubbed version, not the English original... assuming the disc did have optional French subs, I assure you that of those that do watch the English version, the vast majority (again!) would be watching it with French subs... only a teensy weensy minority of French speakers would indeed be watching it without the subs... trust me!

    ...that said, you're probably right in saying the forced subs (also) have something to do with distribution rights - the curse of European DVDs and the reason why they are, on average, more expensive than their American counterparts (no 'economy of scale' possible when you have to make different discs for the Scandinavian, Southern Europe, Central Europe, etc. zones)...

    . . .
     
  5. James Reader

    James Reader Screenwriter

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    Hi Hendrik

    Don't take this the wrong way, it is a genuine question. I have a few European discs, some of which feature audio commentaries in English. However, when the commentary is selected, there are no translation subtitles for the commentary track.

    I find this odd, based on your reply (I must admit my interaction with other mainland European's is limited, but they all seem to prefer original language with no subs) and also based on the fact that a lot of English DVDs are being produced with English subtitles for commentary tracks (the BBC for instance subtitles all commentary tracks).

    Wouldn't the general public prefer subtitled translations? Why is this not done? Wouldn't it help sales?
     
  6. John DrakeLaw

    John DrakeLaw Stunt Coordinator

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    Matt, don't know if any use to you, but the German version has an excellent anamorphic picture with no fixed subs.
     
  7. Malcolm Cleugh

    Malcolm Cleugh Second Unit

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    The German version is identical to the UK version from Momentum (both from same company), in that all you get is a trailer. This however only has a 2.0 surround track whereas I believe the new French version is a SE with commentary and 5.1 mix

    BTW There seems to be a dodgy batch of the UK version in that many players seem to have problems playing the 2nd layer of the disk. Luckily my copy seems okay.

    Hopefully we will see a SE from Universal in the US as this is I believe one of the titles they have reclaimed rights back for from Image.
     
  8. John DrakeLaw

    John DrakeLaw Stunt Coordinator

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    Being interesting to know what the 5.1 track is like, especially if going on the R1 release.
     
  9. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

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    "Hi Hendrik

    Don't take this the wrong way, it is a genuine question. I have a few European discs, some of which feature audio commentaries in English. However, when the commentary is selected, there are no translation subtitles for the commentary track.
    "

    ...erm... when you say 'European discs' with English commentary, which European discs do you mean? French? - these may have commentary in English, but then they will undoubtedly be "VOST" (Version originale sous-titrée)... German? Ditto, or - worse - with a voice-over translation... Italian? Don't have any, so couldn't say... Spanish? Ditto... But I cannot imagine the Italians or Spaniards listening to an English-language commentary without Italian, respectively Spanish subs... Or do you mean UK DVDs? Know that many UK discs (of 'British' movies and 'British' TV programs) do not have subs, English or otherwise...

    "I find this odd, based on your reply (I must admit my interaction with other mainland European's is limited, but they all seem to prefer original language with no subs)" - those are real film fans, then! [​IMG] BUT: they are definitely the exception to the rule - and, btw, by 'original language' I take it you mean English? What about, say, a French fan watching a Russian, a German, an Italian, a Spanish movie - would they still 'prefer original language with no subs'? Highly doubtful...

    Being something of a 'Polyglot' myself, I watch Dutch, German, French and English movies without subs - in a pinch I'll watch an Italian movie without subs, too - but only if the language is 'standard' Italian ... For instance: I have the Italian SE of Tornatore's complete, uncut Malèna where, nominally, 'Italian' is spoken - actually the language is mostly Sicilian dialect, so I was glad to have the Italian(!!!) subs to help me understand what all was being said...

    FACT: outside of Paris, you'd have difficulty finding French cinemas that show undubbed mainstream movies ('Arthouse' movies are a different matter)... Ditto for Italy... Possibly/probably ditto for Spain... I was going to say the same thing about Germany, but apparently things have 'improved' in the past few years - but, still, the AVERAGE German will have to be forced at gunpoint to watch a movie in the original language, be that English, American, French, Italian, or whatever...

    "...and also based on the fact that a lot of English DVDs are being produced with English subtitles for commentary tracks (the BBC for instance subtitles all commentary tracks)." ? ? ?

    "Wouldn't the general public prefer subtitled translations? Why is this not done? Wouldn't it help sales?" - Don't know - Don't know - Doubt it - you and I may order DVDs from 'foreign countries' - the vast majority of DVD 'collectors' buy whatever is available locally - meaning R1 for US fans, R2/UK(!) for UK fans, R2/France(!) for French fans, R2/Germany(!) for German fans, etc.

    (I should get a life, I really should!)

    . . . [​IMG] . . .
     
  10. Mike_Richardson

    Mike_Richardson Supporting Actor

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    I've owned the Image (US), Momentum (UK) and Canal Special Edition (France) discs, and basically here's what it boils down to:

    The best transfers are on the UK and French discs. They're both 16:9 and look terrific.

    The best sound is on the French SE, which is remixed for 5.1 and sounds pretty darned good.

    The best supplements are easily on the French SE -- a full commentary by Mike Hodges, which is interesting whether you agree with his various political ideologies or not, plus a full 30 minute interview with him as well (subtitled).

    It is true the French discs has imposed subtitles, but at least they're below the picture area and can be physically "masked out" if you take some black construction paper and place it at the bottom of your set........yeah, I know, I'm crazy!! [​IMG]

    Otherwise, the French DVD IS worth the importing if you're a fan of the film. Regards, Mike
     
  11. Al Stuart

    Al Stuart Stunt Coordinator

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    From reading the description on www.dvdfr.com , the disc also has a 35 minute excerpt from the soundtrack. The specs read as:

    Le boîtier contient le CD de la B.O.F. par Queen (18 titres - 35'11")

    Is this true, Mike, or anybody else who might have it? And what is the retail price on the set, just I know a good price if I see it?
     
  12. James Reader

    James Reader Screenwriter

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    Re Subtitle Commentaries

     
  13. Sean Campbell

    Sean Campbell Second Unit

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    For getting rid of forced subtitles...

    I can only get this to work in a DVD - Rom drive, but it's better than nothing.

    Firstly, place any other DVD in your PC and switch subtitles to OFF.
    Remove the DVD and replace with the DVD cursed with forced subtitles.
    Without going to the main menu, simply jump to the first chapter of the movie using the 'title' controls. If all goes according to plan, movie should commence without subtitles.
    This solution has worked for me with a couple of hardsubbed discs ( The MK2 edition of 'Fahrenheit 451' and the Japanese release of the 'On the Beach' mini series )
    Sadly, I've yet to find a way to get rid of the subtitles on a stand alone player.
     
  14. Frederic_A

    Frederic_A Stunt Coordinator

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    Hendrik, I'm sure you're right about the purchasing and viewing habits of average Europeans, but I think what it comes down to is choice. Having French sub-titles on DVDs for the french-speaking market obviously makes sense, but FORCING them on the viewer by not allowing them to be turned off amounts to cheating the consumer, in my view. The DVD medium is designed to be flexible, and these are artificial constraints.
     
  15. Mike_Richardson

    Mike_Richardson Supporting Actor

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  16. Richard Cook

    Richard Cook Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi folks

    I picked up the disc at the audio chain DARTY in Cité Europe in Calais on Saturday for €23, a bargain especially when I discovered that the French Supermarket Carrefour, were selling it for €31

    It's an excellent transfer, with great colour and sound. The sub-titles aren't that distracting and are son forgotten once you are into the film.

    DARTY had just one copy left so it looks to be a popular buy

    Highly recommended
     
  17. Mark-C

    Mark-C Stunt Coordinator

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    I've tried ordering it from Amazon.fr but this message comes up:

    *** Un léger problème a été décelé dans votre commande (voir ci-dessous)****
    My friend also got the same when he tried.

    Is there anywhere else I could get it?
     
  18. James Reader

    James Reader Screenwriter

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  19. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Hey Mike!

    On the French version, are the subtitles player generated, or are they burned into the black bar below the pic. ??? If they ARE player generated, is there a workaround? I have a JVC...

    [​IMG] D
     
  20. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

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    Anyone...?!?!?
     

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