Flagship receiver as a core

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ChrisStierle, Jun 10, 2002.

  1. ChrisStierle

    ChrisStierle Auditioning

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    This may be stupid question but here goes anyway: How would a flagship receiver work as a building block for separates.

    Here is a little more info. I am looking at a flagship receiver for the basis of my HT system (I am not going to mention which one because I don’t want this to degrade into a “I have that and it’s great” or “I have this and that one sucks” debate), but I would like to be able to move to separates in the future. Would this be a good stepping stone?
    (Now here I can show my ignorance)What are all the components of a separates system? Which components would be replaced by the receiver? Is it a valid assumption that the piece within a receiver that is lacking is the amps, and using external amplification with a high-end receiver would equal a system made up completely with separate pieces of equipment?

    I understand that these questions are very general and can’t be answered with a sweeping yes or no. But in general, are flagships receivers a good thing to build on or not?

    Thanks in advance

    CS
     
  2. Pete Jennings

    Pete Jennings Second Unit

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    Hi Chris!

    A flagship receiver can indeed make a nice start towards seperates if money is an object. Receivers have three basic components bundled into one box: a preamp-processor for the decoding and routing of audio/video signals; a tuner for tuning AM/FM radio stations; and an amplifier to push the sound to your speakers.

    Receivers offer the most bang-for-your-buck, and usually have more up to date features than preamp-processors do. However, the seperate preamp-processor/amp/tuner combo will *normally* outperform the receiver head-to-head if your speakers are up to the challange.

    You don't necessary have to get the absolute top of the line receiver to make a start towards seperates. I personally wouldn't. In many cases the next model down the line has most of the same features and specs, with a smaller built-in amp. This gives you a little extra cash to put towards a nice amp. Once you get all settled in and cozy with the receiver/amp combo, you can think about selling the receiver and applying the $$ towards buying a pre-pro with or without a built-in tuner.

    At that point, you should basically be there. There are other boxes and gadgets and gizmos that you can purchase, but basically you have reached the seperates stage.

    Take your time with your decisions. Inform yourself before you let some pimple-faced kid at BB or CC talk you into something you might regret.

    I hope this helps!

    Pete
     
  3. ChrisStierle

    ChrisStierle Auditioning

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    Pete,
    Thanks for answering my questions. One of the main attractions to this model of receiver is the ability to do flash upgrades to support new standards. I'm am under the impression that when you by a seperate pre/pro you are basically stuck with the features it supports with no upgrade path.

    Also, it will be some time before I do any upgrading. So I want to have something that I will be happy with until that time.

    How good are receivers as pre/pros compared to seperates? Are the amps the only weak spot within receivers?

    Thanks,

    CS
     
  4. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    Chris,
    First of all its nice to see another South Carolinian here!
     
  5. BrentPollard

    BrentPollard Second Unit

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    Actually the Rotel RSP 1066 and the Anthem AVM 20 both allow for upgrades via the internet. I think the Integra reaserch RDC 7 does as well. But that all depends on how much you are spending. [​IMG]
     
  6. Danny Bonnell

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    Yep...a local HT get together would be great...let me know if anyones up to it.
     
  7. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    I plan on eventually using my Denon 5803 as a preamp. I'll wait a while probably..
     
  8. RichardMA

    RichardMA Second Unit

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    There is something infinitely wrong about buying a receiver,
    only to replace it's amps with separates early on. Just
    buy separates and avoid the mistake in the first place.
     
  9. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    Richard,
    Is there something infinately wrong with buying a receiver to use as a receiver and then realizing you've bought your last receiver and will be moving to seperates on the next upgrade? I don't think so.. My move to seperates will happen this way. Eventually, i plan on buying an amp as my first step, probably a year from now...maybe less. The 5803 has all the processing i need or want right now and even sounds great with it's own amps too me. My gradual move too seperates will be easier for me having bought such a power processor to begin with, with the Denon 5803. I'm right where i want to be in this juggling act we call "Upgradeitus" ! Lol...
    Edit:
    Richard, i just realized you said "early on" oops! [​IMG]
     
  10. ChrisStierle

    ChrisStierle Auditioning

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    Guys,

    Thanks for all of the responses. I don't plan on going the seperates route any time soon, but when I do I don't want to have a piece of equipment in the mix that is obviously inferior (the receiver as a pre/pro). Here's the real question: Is a $2500 receiver as good in the role of a pre/pro as a $2500 seperate pre/pro.

    CS

    Hello fellow South Carolinians. I would love to get together to talk shop over some beers. Unfortunately, the job is currently taking me out of town often. Hopefully, in a couple of weeks things will let up though.
     
  11. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    I think that up until rather recently, it was impossible to buy seperates for $2500. I think that now, though, with seperates pricing going down, that any seperates setup will outdo a receiver at the $2500 price point. In many cases, the difference in quality of the amps will positively influence the sound more than the pricessing capabilities of the preamp section of either setup. It is a known fact that receivers' amps are their weak spot. I think that if you are going to spend more than about $1500 on your main maplification stage, then you are better going for seperates, and you can always keep and use a good amp, even if the pre becomes obsolete. With receivers, even high end ones, when the preamp functions of the unit become obsolete, you are stuck with just some mediocre amps. Hope this helped
     
  12. Aslam Imran

    Aslam Imran Second Unit

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    I agree with RichardMA since these days you can get decent separates for the price of a megabuck flagship. The separates would almost invariably beat the Flagship in performance and are easy to upgrade. Separates are as easily upgradeable as the Flagships. Infact receivers are worse IMO in that regard. Just look at 5800 upgrade: $800 for something that wont even bring it to par with the 5803. How much upgrade will be provided to the 49TX owners remains to be seen. But from what I am guessing it wont bring the 49TX up to par with the next elite flagship and will leave the 49TX owners frettin and bitchin and moanin and cussin. Although they might not accept it but you can bet the sales of alka seltzer will go up soon after the 49TX upgrade is announced.

    In a nut shell what I am saying is dont waste your money on a flagship since there are better and cheaper separates options available IMHO. But thats just me.
     
  13. BobRoulier

    BobRoulier Second Unit

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    Aslam,
    I dont think to many 49tx owners are to worried about an upgrade at this point from what Ive seen all are to busy enjoying them, I own one myself paired with a parasound 2205 amp and maybe in a year or so if a really good pre pro comes out with mcacc or something like it I may consider buying it or if pioneer continues to put out such a nice product then Ill buy that.
    BTW... I think Ill have another sam adams lager ill save the alka seltzer for another time![​IMG]
    Bob
     
  14. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    I think "weak link" senario needs to be tempered a bit as far as flagship receivers go.. There isn't anything "weak" about the stock sound i hear coming out of the 5803 sitt'n in my rack, lol.. This receiver rocks IMO. It should in an 11'2" X 11'6" room! [​IMG]
     
  15. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    i haven't priced components in some time, but i believe these days you can get decent separates for the same price as a flagship receiver. heck...some flagship receivers i've seen are in the 3k (or higher) range. yikes!
    to me, it does not make sense to purchase a receiver knowing that you'll eventually buy an outboard amp. since the pricing is about the same, why not do it now? don't rotel and outlaw make a good combo in the 2500.00 range?
    of course, if the price-points are very differerent, then that's a separate issue.
    besides, separates just look cooler... [​IMG]
     
  16. Rob Roth

    Rob Roth Stunt Coordinator

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    For what it's worth, I was told by one sales type that the pre/pro outputs on receivers that would allow one to connect outboard amps ARE NOT equivalent to the output stages that drive the internal amps. Why this would be is a mystery to me since the dollars saved would not be that great- or would they be?
     
  17. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
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    I am not convinced that the so called flash or firewire upgrades really work or have been used yet. I think that has been a selling point for a few receivers but I am not sure it will work as good as it was intended? I would look at your budget and what your overall plan is for your HT system. IMHO a pre/pro will usally aways be better than a receiver. As long as you have good amplifiers you can always upgrade the pre/pro instead of ditching the receiver every time a new surround format comes out. You may how ever be just as happy with a reveiver one model below the flagship that is hooked to a set of good amps? Basically it boils down to what you want out of your system. I would not forget about making sure your speakers are of good quality . If they are not how much you spend on a receiver or a pre/pro will not matter at that point IMHO. Do alot of research and do not listen to the salespeople at places like BB or CC or there equivlents. Most of there sales staff are kids that do not know much and will try to talk you into anything. Do alot of reading and talk to others like the people here in this forum. Then after formulating a budget and deciding what your goals are for your system. You are more likely to end up with something you will enjoy for many years and be very proud of. Let us know how everything goes.
     
  18. Craig Woodhall

    Craig Woodhall Supporting Actor

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    I personally would take the Outlaw 950/Marantz AV-9000/Lexicon DC-1 and a used amp like a Sherborne/ATI/Outlaw/Parasound in the 150-250 watts/channel neighbourhood over a flagship receiver any day. You could get a nice pre-amp for around $1000 and about the same for a used amp that will out-gun most any receiver.. I totally agree with upgrading in stages but if you're dropping somewhere in the $2000 range,used seperates are the way to go.

    Craig
     
  19. Dave Koch

    Dave Koch Stunt Coordinator

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    I think Craig has the right Idea.

    I started with a Yammie 995.... and a year later, added a Rotel 1095 (5x200 watt amp) and just added an AV-9000 this year. That worked great for me, and did not cause me to go broke. It is kind of fun, too, because you acn really HEAR ecah stage of the improvement!

    But if you went used, you could probably get that great sound to begin with... I think you could easily get a Rotel 1095 and AV-9000 used for 2200.00 or so...
     
  20. Aslam Imran

    Aslam Imran Second Unit

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