First Blu-Ray titles not encoded with new audio codecs (1 Viewer)

[JeremyErwin]

So perhaps we'll see double dipping into 96/24 and 192/24. Okay...

Isn't the dolbyHD decoder on the currently available models stereo only? So, if you wanted lossless 5.1 audio, bluray might have a temporary advantage/

 

[PeterTHX]

Also don't forget the Blu-ray players will pass the core Dolby Digital from Dolby TrueHD as well.

Evidence points to 640kbps DD sounding better than 754 or even 1500 DTS!

 

[JeremyErwin]

CD-Audio has always been 44.1 KHz, though you can upsample it, (for reasons unknown). HDCD offers, iirc, 20 bits, but it's still 44.1 KHz.

It's superior to CDs because it's multichannel. It's superior to DVDs because it's lossless. It's not, however, superior to DVD-Audio/SACD.

Speaking of CDs, the Sony Bluray player will not play them. I don't know about SACDs.

 

[Edwin-S]

I was looking at the specs for the Samsung BD player and they were claiming that it was backward compatible with CD and DVD. I don't remember reading if it was compatible with SACD or DVD-A. Sometimes, I just don't get SONY. Why would they build a player that is compatible with SACD and ignore CD compatibility? It would be a stupid move, considering that the majority of recorded music is still available only on the CD format. A lot of people in that corporation must have rocks in their heads.

Added:

Their early press releases don't seem to indicate SACD support either. They do seem to indicate MP3 support. If they support Mp3 and do not provide CD playback then they really do have rocks in their heads, because their competitors (Panasonic, Samsung) are providing CD support in their players.

 

[JeremyErwin]

A question, then. Suppose a (non concert) dvd, for some strange reason, came with both a dts track and a lpcm stereo track. Which soundtrack would you prefer to listen to?

 

[Rob_HD]

Seriously, tho, is the Pope really Catholic. I mean, how do we really know just yet?

BTW - to save a reply DTS-HD MA is the lossless DTS-HD version (TruHD has no lossy versions).

 

[Rob_HD]

The product available in Japan doesn't have much in common with what is shipping here (ie as a Read-only, copy-protected movie distribution format).

 

[Rob_HD]

Hmmm... any reason why you left out the specs and options for HD DVD?

 

[Rob_HD]

Please do post this evidence. 1.5 Mbps DTS has almost always sounded better to me.

Not getting into a format war over DD and DTS here, but the only "evidence" I've ever seen was blind listener studies that claimed to prove that some people couldn't hear the difference - Not that DD sounded better than 1.5 Mbps DTS.

 

[Lew Crippen]

If the original track was mono (or 2-channel stereo), the easy answer is yes—I’d rather have PCM than DTS.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

He's talking about the specs for LPCM. Does HD DVD allow for LPCM at high sampling rates/bit-depths? I know that one can use Dolby True HD and DTS-HD to capture lossless audio but I wasn't aware of high-resolution LPCM. Is there more of which I'm not aware?

 

[Rob_HD]

Well, I've been through this thread (as you can see ) and just want to make sure that everyone understands the main issues that come to bear on the thread topic.

While I'm sure that some will disagree with my viewpoint and my summary, I'm sure enough will understand.

So - "This is my opinion of the situation, based on the facts of the matter".

1) Bluray decided not to mandate that BD players MUST decode the newer, advanced codecs - DD+, DTS-HD and Tru-HD. Instead they only have to decode the DD or DTS core from these.

2) Because of this, BD disc releases will ALWAYS have to assume that the majority of BD players cannot decode these advanced codecs.

3) Therefore, unless a particular BD release includes an L-PCM stream, most BD owners will only ever get "old style" DD or DTS audio from Bluray.

4) This is not to say that 2nd or 3rd Gen BD players will not be able to decode some or all of the advanced codecs, but the studios will always have to cater to the "lowest common denominator".

5) In order to make a "swell impression" at launch, Sony seems determined to ensure that some of the first BD releases have an L-PCM soundtrack.

6) L-PCM data uses 2 to 4 times the space of a TruHD or DTS-HD MA track at the same resolution and sample rate.

7) Unfortunately, due to single-layer BD-ROMs, (apparent) issues getting the full 25 Gigs on SL BD-ROMs, and the "minor" matter of only having Mpeg 2 available at launch, this mean that the inclusion of L-PCM tracks will put a very substantial pressure against the Video Quality of these BD releases.

8) Even if BD resolves its issues and DL BD-ROMs become common, the inclusion of L-PCM tracks to cater to the de-facto "lowest common denominator" (of BD player owners without advanced codec capabilities) will waste a tremendous amount of the space advantages that DL BD-ROM enjoys.

9) Unlike the Video side of things (where VC1 and AVC will eventually be available on BD disc releases) this issue will never actually go away.

10) Imagine if the BD players were not madated to decode VC1 and AVC, but could only do Mpeg 2 and uncompressed video? This is effectively what they have dug themselves into on the audio side of things.

IMHO - anyone touting plain DD decoding, of TruHD or DD+, as a great feature of BD-ROM is simply "sugar coating" dried elephant dung. The failure by BDA to include mandatory support for these codecs renders the whole first generation of BD players useless, as far as audio is concerned.

 

[Rob_HD]

... Yes, it does.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Sort of. Yes, Sony is providing lossless audio on some first-gen titles via LPCM because it's a safe-bet to work on all players. But keep in mind that you're not even getting *that* level of performance when you play your HD DVDs on your Toshiba player which cannot give you 5.1 LPCM from your Dolby True HD discs (just 2.0).

This tendancy of using LPCM is a "sony thing" and won't reflect how other studios approach BD or how it's used in the long term. Chances are that Sony will see the light soon after other studios start to look cool with their advanced audio and video codec usage.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Maybe because the data-space and bandwidth of HD DVD is more limited, it makes using LPCM with high-quality video less of a possibility... which is why he didn't mention it.

Somewhat kidding here though... I'm sure that a well compressed VC1 video track might still leave room for some nice LPCM audio... though as long as you can compress it losslessly...why not? (what you're saying overall)

I look forward to BD discs using Dolby True HD and DTS-HD lossless.

 

[Rob_HD]

Actually - it's pretty obvious that the mandatory inclusion of more advanced audio codecs within the HD DVD specs means that L-PCM tracks are "less of a necessity" rather than "less of a possibility".

 

[Lew Crippen]

David B, don’t you think that it is time you stopped referring to Rob as rdjam?

He has stated that he was in fact, not rdjam, and without evidence to the contrary, I’ll take him at his word. Besides which, it makes no difference at all: either his posts make sense (regardless of any possible pseudonyms on other forum(s), or they do not.

It is not necessary to point out that a poster on another forum has an HD-DVD bias in order to demonstrate that Rob-HD has an HD-DVD bias. That bias is either apparent or not. And it is pretty easy to judge that bias (or lack thereof) entirely on the merits of HTF posts.

Rob-HD, like many of us, has valid points and ones where his facts or logic is lacking—and to be fair he has acknowledged at least one.

All I needed to know was his support of the Disney/Lions Gate petitions to come to a conclusion of his analytical skills.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I did expect that there would be a knee-jerk rebuttal.

I'll leave the readers to come to their own conclusion as to how much of each of the missives are factual, common sense deductions and wishful thinking

It certainly makes for a good debate tho.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...5&postcount=74

 

[Rob_HD]

(smacks head) how appropriate!

 

[DaViD Boulet]

light-hearted fun!